norriel wrote:Hi Steve, thanks for your input, no its not a morgage it was a Bank loan, I've managed to tackle RBS and Clydesdale quiet successfully but HFC which is a sub of HSBC seem to want blood. They sent me a photocopy of the loan agreement but not the orginial I believe that the Scottish Parliment pass a bill in Dec 2009 that all docs had to be orginials. Let me know what think.
Regards Norriel
Hi Norriel,
I'm not sure about any bills passed by the Scottish Government; however, it is immaterial because the loan would be governed by the law of England. The bank are only legally required to provide a reconstituted document and not the original.
You could go down the 'prove that it is my signature' route but you might come unstuck. You would have to argue that as it is 'not' your signature then you didn't apply for the loan; however, they will be able to prove very easily that the money was paid into your bank account in which case as you have probably spent the money you would have to return it. Not to do so is is theft.
The Theft Act 1968 has this to say:
1. Basic definition of theft
(1) A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and ‘theft’ and ‘steal’ shall be construed accordingly.(2) It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit.
(3) The five following sections of this Act shall have effect as regards the interpretation and operation of this section (and, except as otherwise provided by this Act, shall apply only for purposes of this section).
2. ‘Dishonestly’
(1) A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest-
(a) if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person; or
(b) if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it; or
(c) (except where the property came to him as trustee or personal representative) if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the
property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps.
(2) A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another may be dishonest notwithstanding that he is willing to pay for the property.3. ‘Appropriates’
(1) Any assumption by a person of the rights of an owner amounts to an appropriation, and this includes, where he has come by the property (innocently or not) without stealing it, any later assumption of a right to it by keeping or dealing with it as owner.(2) Where property or a right or interest in property is or purports to be transferred for value to a person acting in good faith, no later assumption by him of rights which he believed himself to be acquiring shall, by reason of any defect in the transferor’s title, amount to theft of the property.
4. ‘Property’
(1)
‘Property’ includes money and all other property, real or personal, including things in action and other intangible property.
Hopefully this will help.