Trust oriented mortgage discussion

[bustthematrix]

Hi All

Hope you've all had a great Christmas and looking forward to 2010.

I've heeded some of the advice re trusts and started looking into the CW material. So far though, the penny is yet to drop. It all seems rather vague and I wonder if this is not another disinformation/wild goose chase scenario. The whole trusts idea seems like there's so much room for smoke and mirrors.

For me, simple ideas are usually the best as they tend to work. I am yet to clearly see what would need to be done and any guidance on how to go about it, within the CW materials. Still, we plod on....

Best btm

[Highspirit]

Hi BTM, the penny will drop for sure. I reccommend you listen to the 31st October Audio, then go back or forwards from there, very enlightening.

Then, you are more than welcome to join our fast growing thread on Skype where many in the UK are pooling their knowledge and learning. CW is a member of the thread and has been seen on there occasionally. This guy offers everything he knows for Free, there is no hidden agenda here, just fantastic information which many are now seeing as the real way forward. Absolutely nothing to lose and you will see many converts there who are realising that Creditor/Debtor is not the way to go.

PM me if you want to join the Skype thread :)

HS

[bustthematrix]

IMHO technically they ARE lending you the money but its money raised by your obligation to perform! is there any need for a PN in this scenario. If they are acting fraudulently then why do we expect them to follow any law what so ever. All they need do is give the appearance that they are as most people will not question them.

Hi Free. Is it not still an appearance of legitimacy?

How can it be that the lender lent you their own money if 'your obligation to perform' is what 'raised' or created the money as you state above?

If the lender commits no fraud in this arena, why will they never show their audited accounting for each and every loan account, on request by the 'borrower'?

[bustthematrix]

Hi HS

Will do. Thanks

[MrFrodo]

Highspirit,

You may well be right, or wrong! I am not sure as I know next to nothing about trusts however I am not sure if we can yet write the creditor/debtor approach, far from it. I am not even sure if it has yet to be fully tested? It seems the jury is still out (hey wait...they rarely even get invited!)

Frodo

[nameless]

Highspirit recommended listening to the 31st October Audio, then go back or forwards from there.

Thanks for suggesting a starting place. I had originally downloaded a different one, and whilst this is instructive, as I'm sure they all are, I would rather be in the same place as you and one or two others so that I can compare my comprehension with minds that are sharper than my own.

Notes I made whilst listening to two tapes so far: (Apologies if these points have already been discussed.)

A trust can be expressed by AFVing.
Consideration is the promise as there's no gold.
Because gold has been taken away, trusts now exist and contracts can now no longer be completed.
Common Law has vanished from the public.
Power of Revocation.
A deed is an act.
Trust receipt (record of payment)
If legal title and beneficial title become united in one entity, the trust terminates. Before the removal of gold, we had perfect title but since money went out of the system, they divided the title and now we don't have perfect title. The title can be brought back together on a merger to perfect title again.
We need a right to revoke power of attorney. A lot of US forms were mentioned, so I don't know if there is a simple way for us. The fact that some of us are AFVing utilities, for example, shows that we are expressing the trust, doesn't it?

I have also started watching Winston Shrout's Phoenix dvd and he says that a deed of trust is fraud because of lack of consideration.

If I have miscomprehended anything here, I would be grateful to be put right.

Does the answer lie in revoking and/or expressing the Cestui que Trust rather than trying to access the Foreign Situs Trust directly by using the strawman as the transmitting utility. As we know, the government set up the Cestui que Trust in order to gain access to our Foreign Situs Trust, which was formed through the birth certificate. When we failed to express the trust after applying for/receiving our N.I. number, the government do it in our stead. Just thinking out loud and seeing what sticks.

[Highspirit]

Hi nameless, yes you are pretty much in tune. One of the main points being that since Gold/Silver was removed and we were issued 'Fiat' then how can any party bring anything of consideration to the table? Therefore the belief in contract law is misplaced and this is why Trust Law came about more widespread as it quietly removes common law and contract law.

Winston mentions the 'Deed of Trust' or in the UK 'Trust Deed' and the lack of consideration. He is right that it is a fraud but wrong when you realise we operate under Trust Law becuase the lender never could bring anything of value to the contract.

AV4 is half correct the Winston way, there is a different way to do it as you may have picked up on in relation to doing it under Trust. Every document that come through your door wanting your signature is probably a 'Trust' and it should be A4V accordingly as the Grantor etc.

If you want to accelrate your learning and join a fast growing UK group on this on Skype then PM me for details :)

HS

[rodgreenwell]

Hi guys, my two penneth for what it is worth!

1. I believe we should move the trust "project" from this discussion as many are still learning this new technology (benefits or not), and it disjoints this thread (I am responsible also for this) and the creditor/debtor approach IS still being used even by those looking into trusts. (OK Me!!) I think it only fair and honourable and also in respect to FMOTL Michael who has spent a significant amount of time, effort and resources to get us this far... I for one remain eternally grateful to him for having the heart and such a great attitude for sharing his significant efforts (thanks Michael I am indebted to you for sharing what you know and understand ) and will continue to utilise what he/you has/have posted here and I very much look forward to what else he/you has to post....
2. I also agree with BTM: The debtor/creditor private administration route still has potential and whilst not always delivering the success we all crave, it HAS yielded success in the past... For me the key here is do your research, understand what you are doing and do not be intimidated.... if you copy and paste with blind hope then you are in most likelyhood going to fail.... sorry...
3. Lets not forget that many here are still pioneering what we are doing... and on that front two other people who I hold in highest regard and will be eternally grateful to are Martin (Arturo) and Michael (Oshun)... you have dared to tread where many have not ... you have the courage to stand up for what you believe is right... If you are in doubt, re-read this thread.....
4. FMOTL Michael has provided the framework from which to move forward... he has never, at any stage said it WOULD WORK FOR YOU.... we all need to take responsibility for our actions and deeds... If I have learnt one thing it is keep researching until you have that AHA! moment... then keep researching until you have that AHA! moment, then keep.... "you get the picture."

Are we any closer to success... IMHO absolutely..... and I am reminded of the geese flying North (or is it South) for the winter... one leads the others follow until a new leader leads... shareing the responsibility, shareing the burded... until.... they get to where they set out to go....

Trusts.... do your own research and educate yourself..... Is it worth the effort, that is for you to decide, but I for one believe that the more options you have open to you the better equiped you are... on that point HS & BBD awesome... Thanks...

[bustthematrix]

WOW!
As a result of writing my last post and pondering on previous responses from FMOTL Michael and BTM, I have had an AHA moment....
Thanks to you both...
I think I have worked it out

Hi Rod
Still looking forward to hear what this is all about...?!?!?!

Won't you share???

[Oshun]

Hi, Everyone,

R,

I believe we should move the trust "project" from this discussion as many are still learning this new technology (benefits or not), and it disjoints this thread (I am responsible also for this)

- a good idea. When and where?

peace

oshun