FOI - Ministry of Justice Status

[Farmer]

Today I received a request for clarification which was the same as their first reply, so I resent my original reply.

[Farmer]

Received the following:

Chadwick, Paul
Ministry of Justice
10 November 2009

Our reference: TO257014 - TO09/5769

Dear Mr Smith

Apologies for the delay in replying to your follow-up email. I have now completed my follow-up investigation into the "company" registered in the name of the Ministry of Justice with the registration number "UC6214811" as referred to in your original correspondence.

Companies House, the body responsible for the examination and storing of company information in the UK, do not recognise this company or the registration number.

Having contacted the company behind the "snoop4companies" website, I understand that they receive their information from a separate website, www.icc.co.uk. The list of "companies" on ICC's records, include references to organisations you would expect to find in the local telephone directory. As in the example you found with the Ministry of Justice, not all of the organisations found in such a directory could be described as a company. I asked a representative from ICC where, in the example of the Ministry of Justice, they got the registration number from. They responded by saying that they themselves attached the registration number to the Department and that the prefix "UC" refers to "unincorporated" (i.e. not a company).

Hopefully this information will give you the assurance you require that the Ministry of Justice is not a registered company.

In regard to question 12, having spoken with colleagues in the Department's legal division, I understand that your question raises complex legal issues, the answer to which will depend on the particular facts of the case. Our advice is that you contact a solicitor with expertise in maritime law. I am sorry that I could not be more helpful in this respect.

Kind regards

Paul

Paul Chadwick
Senior Financial Governance Manager
Investment & Financial Governance
Corporate Finance
Ministry of Justice

[Farmer]

My reply:

John Smith

11 November 2009

Dear Mr. Chadwick

Thank you for your reply.

With regard to the Ministry of Justice being a company, a similar reply was given to another FOI request by Sussex Police dated 23 July 2009:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/directors_shareholders_beneficia

In that reply they stated that "Companies House are the definitive register of companies and it is a legal requirement that any company be registered with them. As we are not a company we are not required to register and therefore we have no listing at Companies House" so I will assume that this is correct. However, are Crown Corporations also registered with Companies House, and could it be that the Ministry of Justice is a Crown Corporation, ignoring any upper or lower case spelling? And as Crown Corporations exist, where might I get information about them?

With regard to question 12, I can assure you that this is not in regard to any legal cases. It is simply a wish to know what type of law Parliament may make. My understanding is that Acts of Parliament may only be Statutes, but I would like to know whether this is correct and what type of law they are as outlined in question 12. If you are unable to supply this information, will you please point me to the correct people where I can send this request for information to. It is unlikely that solicitors or barristers will be able to help me as they always hedge their bets and are not the source of the information.


Yours sincerely,

John Smith

[BaldBeardyDude]

In regard to question 12, having spoken with colleagues in the Department's legal division, I understand that your question raises complex legal issues, the answer to which will depend on the particular facts of the case. Our advice is that you contact a solicitor with expertise in maritime law.

So, any of 'em then?

I am sorry that I could not be more helpful in this respect.

Kind regards

Paul

Paul Chadwick
Senior Financial Governance Manager
Investment & Financial Governance
Corporate Finance
Ministry of Justice

Insincere git!

Nice try as ever, Farmer - I think you've found a talent, or a good muse.

[Farmer]

It can be fun blowing bubbles and seeing where they drift to.

This is the second time now I have been advised to get legal advice or that they cannot answer because of non existent cases in the requests I have made.

[Farmer]

I recieved this reply today. When I was making a clarification, I made a mistake of sending the wrong clarification to the wrong FOI. I imediatly sent a correction about the mistake, but it seems they have responded to the mistake which is also useful. the other FOI is FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction. I have closed this FOI:

Dear Mr Smith,

Thank you for your recent correspondence where you have asked questions that broadly regard the jurisdiction of Parliament.

Parliament is the supreme law making body in England and Wales and can legislate in whatever field of law that it wishes. Laws passed by Parliament are referred to as Acts of Parliament or statute law. Statute law has become the commonest source of new laws or law reform since around the 17th century. Parliament can therefore legislate in all the areas of law that you mention - commercial, civil and admiralty law - and many others, for example, criminal law.

In contrast, the term ‘common law’ refers to the substantive law and procedural rules that have been developed by the decisions of the courts using a system of judicial precedent. The development of the common law in the English legal system can be traced back to the twelfth century and the reign of Henry II who unified the court system and commenced the process of travelling judges which, following the commencement of recording and publishing of judgements, enabled the practice of judicial precedent or stare decisis to develop whereby past decisions would be cited in argument before the court and regarded as being of persuasive and even binding authority. This practice developed into the common law of England and Wales and is still a very significant source of law today.

With regards to your question regarding the relationship between legislation and the common law, statutes can amend or replace common law in a particular area, but the common law cannot overrule or change statutes. A statute can only be overruled or amended by another, later piece of legislation. This reflects the legal and political doctrine of Parliamentary Sovereignty - the recognition and acceptance that Parliament is the supreme law-making authority. Subject to the need to consider both European and international laws and the importance of principles such as the recognition of individual freedoms, democracy and government accountability, judges must normally apply statutes, even if they are contrary to established common law.

You ask how Parliament has jurisdiction over a human being. Those born in the UK are subjects of the Crown, who summons Parliament to provide advice and to legislate. Parliament is the representative of the people through election to the House of Commons. Members of Parliament are elected to represent the people and by those elections they have been legitimately handed the power to assess, enact or reject legislation. The laws are enforced by the judicial system, not by Parliament.

You ask about the difference between being a British subject and a British citizen. There is no material difference. However described, such a person has the same duties to uphold and to obey the law.

‘Crown Corporation’ is a term frequently used in Canada, to describe a state controlled company or enterprise which operates at arms length from the Government. The Ministry of Justice is a government department, not a crown corporation.

I hope that you find this information helpful.

Farah Ziaulla

[freeman-matt]

Talking shit,talking shit talking shit......................................

[Jim]

statutes can amend or replace common law in a particular area

Like the sea!

Parliament is the supreme law-making authority.

Is it not God? I thought it was God.

[BaldBeardyDude]

More like the Ministry of Silly Answers if you ask me Or the new python FOI argument sketch! no it isn't...yes it is.....

Top stuff, Farmer, m8