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Postby Hrothgar » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:20 pm

Hi all,

This is my first post on here as I'd like to present you with a conundrum I'm having. I'm fairly new to the Freeman concepts so please excuse any ignorance on my part. This is a long winded case and although I've trawled across this forum and many other internet sites I'm confused as to what action to take next.

If you take a look at the 2 files attached, you will NOTICE at first glance that the dates for both addresses overlap, now as far as I'm aware you don't have to pay council tax on 2 properties as only 1 can be your place of residence? To the best of my knowledge I moved into the second address (displayed as '6 HOVE') on the 4th of April 2007 which is fairly accurate according to their assumptions. Now on the SUMMONS paper detailing info on the first address (displayed as '126C BRIGHTON') they claim I owe council tax for a period that overlaps my occupation of property '6 HOVE' from the 1st to the 20th April 2007.

Also my tenancy for the '6 HOVE' property ended at the end of August 2008 and so I find it hard to understand why the council is asserting that I owe them for the 26 days of September 2008. I was talking to a friend about this little problem and they said something about a Judge can throw a case out of court if evidence is conflicting, is this a correct assumption?

I'll throw in the history of events here just to add more information to the case. In April 2007 when I moved into '6 HOVE' I applied for Housing Benefit which did help me pay my rent and they sorted my council tax for me. However in April 2008 I started a casual based job as a software tester and had trouble paying my rent so continued to use the council tax payments to cover my shortfall. If I hadn't I'd have fallen into rent arrears as my job was just not paying enough. I know these SUMMONS are not for housing benefit overpayment but the council asked me to pay back the overpayment and I sent them a letter stating that I got paid fuck all and needed the housing benefit to pay my rent still, I gave them details of my earnings and a forwarding address for future correspondence but nothing else came so I thought great!

Now recently I applied for finance to buy a laptop online but this was rejected, subsequently I received a NOTICE from a collections agency asking if I lived at the address I issued the finance from (same address the SUMMONS was sent to MR RICHARD ORPINGTON). The LIABILITY was over a thousand pounds but no information about the origin of the LIABILITY. I threw it in the bin and waited for another NOTICE from them so I could write "NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS" on the envelope and send it back; consequently I've not heard from them for 3 months. However 'Brighton & Hove City Council' must have found me the same way the collections agency found me (possibly due to my application for finance or because I'm claiming dole) and sent me NOTICE for both properties; addressed to me and the other PERSONS I was sharing the properties with. I do find it strange that after I sent these back with "NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS" they then sent me 2 SUMMONS' addressed only to me and not the other PERSONS involved in the tenancies.

So far I've sent the council an e-mail which I will show here:


Reference: Council Tax Account Numbers: 2XXXXXXXX & 2XXXXXXXX (SUMMONSES attached)

Without prejudice:
In the matter of your claim for council tax arrears I advise that I can accept your offer to pay council tax conditional upon the following:-

That you can demonstrate that there is a contract between the Brighton & Hove City Council and me Richard: of the family Xxxxxx (the man) and not MR RICHARD XXXXXX (the person and a corporation).
That the Brighton & Hove City Council has given full disclosure (as required by common law) re the services being offered and that these have been accepted by me for the value so stated.
That Brighton & Hove City Council can demonstrate manifestation of intent by way of my signature on a contract between us.
That the terms and conditions of any contract are lawful (in common law – not statute law).
That a liability order is being sought against the legal fiction ‘MR RICHARD XXXXXX’ a person and a corporation by the Brighton & Hove City Council (a corporation) being of equal status as required by law and NOT against Richard: of the family Xxxxxx (a man) and of greater value and thus superior status to a corporation which would render the proceedings unequal in law and thus invalid.
That council tax is lawful.

I would further advise that I do not give my consent to hearings being conducted in a Court De Facto and insist this matter be dealt with in a Court De Jure – under common law jurisdiction and that judgement be by way of a jury of my peers.

I would further advise that the Brighton & Hove City Council legal team should be fully aware of the status of the Brighton & Hove Magistrates’ court as being a branch of the ‘Ministry of Justice’ which is a registered corporation – and as such conducts its business under Admiralty jurisdiction – whose rulings are invalid on dry land without the consent of BOTH parties to the hearing and that I specifically do not give consent to these proceedings under this jurisdiction.

Yours sincerely – without ill-will, vexation or frivolity

Richard: of the family Xxxxxx

Should I now serve them this notice in writing via registered post and get two other people to do the same? Does this letter i've sent them seem legally sound etc? I poached it from the website where a guy seemed to get his summons, all charges and his council tax for that year dropped on the strength of this letter.

Basically I'm really not all that fussed about any consequences regarding this, I'll play games try anything to find out what works and what doesn't. I have no debt notes to pass on to anybody so I couldn't give a monkey's if a liability order is placed against me, I'll just bill them if they do this. What I'd appreciate is open discussion about this to enhance my knowledge and understanding of things. I don't mind being a Guinea pig for any ideas etc. I'll even go to prison to fight this garbage as I'm totally sick of living in a world of perpetual debt slavery and I feel that settling claims via any form of remedy is only lining the pockets of the people above you in the money pyramid. If debts can be written off and thrown out of court then surely the banks will have less reserves with which to issue more debt?

Any comments would be welcome, my court date is the 24th September 2009.

Kind Regards
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Postby llewop » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:09 am

hi Ric,

good luck with your council tax claim, soon i hope to send the same letter to my local council.

about your overpayments - could this not be seen as dishonour, if you did not repay it?
it could either be seen as dishonour, or could be seen that you have got one over on tha bad guys...

good luck with your claim, would be nice to read about what happens next... :) Free music for free people
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Postby Hrothgar » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:13 am

llewop wrote:about your overpayments - could this not be seen as dishonour, if you did not repay it?
it could either be seen as dishonour, or could be seen that you have got one over on tha bad guys...

I think I've remained in honour as I was sent a NOTICE by Brighton & Hove Common Purpose Council asking me to reimburse their overpayment. I wrote back to them saying I took the overpayments because I couldn't afford to survive without them and gave them evidence to this effect with bank statements and payslips. I told them I would pay it back if necessary and gave them a forwarding address to send further correspondence to. They never wrote back to me confirming or denying their intention to seek reimbursement so I now take that as a form of acquiescence to my statement that I needed the money and that I wasn't being intentionally fraudulent.

Now I was wondering if this would be a thing I could bring evidence to the courtroom with, although I don't want to open a can of worms and get more debt issued on my PERSON so I think I'm going to stick by my guns and negotiate their (un)lawful execution of council tax as a way of resolving the account. I'm just wondering if I should hit the court with any paperwork now or if I should send further corrispondance to the council as I sent my e-mail off to them on the 9th September 2009 and as of yet have only had the usual automated response "Thank you for your email to the Council Tax Service. Emails are dealt with in date order and, at times, there can sometimes be a delay replying to you" etc.

I'll try and document everything in a format that I can present and hopefully I get a success like the guy that stood up to Wirral. If I get an order placed upon me then I'll be looking to seek my own commercial remedy by presenting someone with the Bill for the order. I'm not quite sure if I serve the council, the judge or the court with this bill but that's something I shall have to find out. I think it would be best to have the bill drafted up when I go so I can slap it straight on the table and say "Nice doing business with you" :).
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Postby Hrothgar » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:23 am

Can anyone tell me if these SUMMONSES are legit because I cannot see a case number on them. Are the council just sending out unofficial papers that look like SUMMONSES to try scaring me into paying them here?

Should I submit an N9 form to dispute jurisdiction beforehand or is that a futile exercise?

My opinion is the order will be steamrollered over any legitimate concerns or questions posed about the legitimacy of Council Tax and was wondering if anyone can offer advice with which to try and thwart this or shield myself via commercial remedy after the order is placed, like getting the judge to act outside the limitation of his/her powers. What commercial remedies can I issue for this behaviour?

Cheers all, any help will be greatly appreciated, I'm not getting a whole lot of advice on this case and would love to be able to score a win against TPTB so I can document the steps here and give others the opportunity to learn from my court appearance.

Kind Regards
- Ric
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Postby Sophia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:03 pm

you have posted this under mcKenzie friends which is why you are not being answered by the more experienced members - re post this as urgent - under the correct heading and you will get some answers.
Try going to taxes and once in there, go to council tax only. Good luck. Once you have read all the posts and reposted what might be a different question, you can always pm folk.
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