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Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:47 am
by dmurphy25
strawmansarah wrote:WITHOUT PREJUDCE means that the RECIPIENT cannot use that document in Court - ie it cannot be used to incriminate you in any way. What YOU do with your own documents however is up to you, and YOU can most certainly bring them to Court if you so choose... :giggle:

I intend to Sarah, and I will place a 1p stamp signed through on both sides of each document so the maggies have to see them or add to the charges against them :D

Dipsy wrote:Your not a Secured party Creditor, nor do you have any enforecement....oh dear your going to the gas chambers!!


My dear Dipsy, the problem with fear mongering is that it only works on those that are afraid and I am not :sun:
No I am not a Secured party Creditor, nor do I have any enforecement, but I have seen those that do have treated identically to those that don't have all this in place.

There was an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation (oh no, I'm a geek!) where Data was beaten at some game against a grand master, he eventually beat the grand master by changing the objective he had for playing the game that is instead of playing to win, his objective was not to let his opponent win.

The clue here is in the title of this thread, I know I will not win this, it's their rules (which they are free to ignore but to which we are held), their courts and everyone is working for them so I am not playing this to win I am playing to not let them win, if they want their £164.00 they will have to pay out thousands to get it, and I will make sure they know it every time they try and make me pay this, time after time after time... They will be forced to step up their game but then, so will I :sun:

It's called Lawful Rebellion matey and if we all did it this nonsense would soon stop... Besides, I get to have so much fun paying Council Tax :giggle:

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:12 am
by dmurphy25
strawmansarah wrote:Do you know how you will enforce your lien?


Sorry Sarah, I forgot to answer your question,I don't have to enforce anything, I just serve a sequence of affidavits and if they all go unrebutted then 90 days later the lien becomes a perfected security which, while we don't yet know how to monetise it, we do know of entities that do, such as the IRS... If I were to make a gift of this security to the IRS they will surely monetise it and the council will wake up one morning with £4,000,000 less in their wallet.

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:08 am
by 1965freeman
I'd just like to make the following comment to all those engaged in effectively trying to prove that they have no contract with their local councils and are therefore not liable for council tax:

If you are to remain honourable, and insist that you have no contractual obligation to pay council tax, then YOU MUST also let them know that you do not require, and WILL NOT USE any services wholly provided by them. And you have to mean it. That means - you will NOT (knowingly) use any of the services they provide. THAT INCLUDES REFUSE COLLECTION. That means you cannot expect your bins to be emptied. YOU will have to make alternative arrangements.

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:55 am
by strawmansarah
Surely the bin-emptying (etc) is THEIR problem, and as long as THEY CHOOSE to empty it, that's their lookout. If THEY want to provide a 'free' service, that's nice :) If they stop doing that, well, then is the time to make one's own alternative arrangements IMHO :shh:

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:03 pm
by 1965freeman
Errr, no strawmansarah,

If you produce refuse, it is YOUR problem, NOT the council's. Taking responsibility for your own actions is, imho, the point of being a freeman.
You miss my point - you CANNOT argue that THERE IS NO CONTRACT (on whatever grounds) and then CONTINUE to take advantage of their services for free. Refuse collectors will not knock on your door and ask if you have anything to take away, they will ONLY remove your rubbish if you deliberately leave your full bin in the appropriate place. The answer is always simple. Ask yourself if you feel you are being truly honest. If the answer is 'no' then you are acting deceptively - something to avoid wherever possible.

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:14 pm
by strawmansarah
I agree with you in principle. What I mean is, if THEY choose to carry on providing a service for which I have said there is no contract, is it not my responsibility to tell them what they should and should not do.... Agreed it IS my responsibility to do all I can to be self sufficient, I didn't mean to infer any differently. What I meant was, IF they CHOOSE to carry out a service that I have not asked for, and have actively rejected for cause, that's up to them.

Hope that makes better sense lol :psst: :hug:

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:41 pm
by Zaniwhoop
A great topic this, thanks for posting, it may help a bit with my hearing tomorrow, although it is technically for non-domestic rates.

Veronica wrote:2. The Civil Procedure Rules - WHICH THEY MUST FOLLOW (AS FAR AS THEY ARE CONCERNED) state that a Council Tax Liability Hearing CANNOT be held within the boundaries of the Council's responsibilities. Thus ALL Council Tax Liability Hearings are ILLEGAL (on top of being unlawful, of course!) ... due to MASSIVE CONFLICT OF INTEREST. (Which is always on CLEAR & BLATANT demonstration at any such Hearing)
Have you got the specific rule and section numbers etc., handy?

strawmansarah wrote:WITHOUT PREJUDCE means that the RECIPIENT cannot use that document in Court - ie it cannot be used to incriminate you in any way. What YOU do with your own documents however is up to you, and YOU can most certainly bring them to Court if you so choose... :giggle:
Thanks for clearing that one up sarah.

strawmansarah wrote:
dmurphy25 wrote:....if you have genuine difficulty in making this payment you should contact me immediately to discuss the possibility of an alternative payment arrangement. I hereby authorise communications of this nature.
I paticularly liked this bit :grin: :clap: :giggle: :shake: :love:
Me too, :clap:

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:57 am
by Dipsy
wots the big deal?

If you manage to severe your contract with the council im pretty sure it wont cost 1200 quid a year to get a private contractor to walk up to your bin on ANY day of your choosing empty it and put it back in the right place and not kick it half way up the street where i usually find mine. How much will this cost i dunno maybe 5 quid a week but private contractors to empty bins are on the increase AND no need to sort the rubbish into 8 different colours.

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:53 am
by Zaniwhoop
A very good point Dipsy and a topic worthy of its own topic methinks. r maybe there already is one. There's a very large amount of topics I have yet to read on here yet :blush: I was just thinking similar thoughts about water if I can get Welsh Water off my back. Trouble is we've already used the services provided even though they weren't agreed to, so they can try and prosecute for theft. So I suppose we need to work out how to get off the grid on that one too.

Re: Another approach to Council Tax

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:23 am
by dmurphy25
Zaniwhoop wrote:A very good point Dipsy and a topic worthy of its own topic methinks. r maybe there already is one. There's a very large amount of topics I have yet to read on here yet :blush: I was just thinking similar thoughts about water if I can get Welsh Water off my back. Trouble is we've already used the services provided even though they weren't agreed to, so they can try and prosecute for theft. So I suppose we need to work out how to get off the grid on that one too.


Funny you should mention that about getting off the grid, I'm working on that one too, you might be interested in these topics:

http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5229
http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3719
http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5245
http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4651&start=10

and on TPUC

http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13855
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13764

Let me know if you'd like to get involved :)

PS. Zaniwhoop is a great name, I was going to use Wowbagger at one point :giggle: