Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby Tom_C » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:01 am

Hi All,

I'm looking for some suggestions on how to approach a court appearance and whether I should even attend.

I have been granted bail to appear in a Magistrates court on a made up charge of obstruction/resisting arrest - because I would not provide a NAME and was walking away from the policeman who wanted to speak to me about an alleged domestic dispute.
I got arrested, roughed up, strip searched and had DNA taken simply because I would not answer their questions or give my legal NAME. They then obtained it from my former partner.
Anyhow, I didn't answer any questions, or stand under anything nor did I sign anything until I was presented with a Bail sheet to attend court. I knew I shouldn't sign it and I protested and spoke to the duty solicitor about not signing it (who knew nothing about the whole freeman thing). Eventually I was coerced into putting a swiggle on the page (not my actual signature) as I was threatened with more time in the cells, another search, etc.
What I did the next day was send the paperwork back to the police station with the following text written across the Bail sheet "No contract, returned to sender. Full disclosure of the terms and conditions of contract was not provided. Did not understand contract and was coerced under protest and duress. Authorised representative for Mr. XXXXX. All rights reserved, Without prejudice"

So I have done this but the Bail sheet says I have to "...surrender to the custody of the Magistrates court..." on the date given and if "...I fail to do so I may commit an offence and be fined, imprisoned or both."

I've not faced anything like this before I'm wondering if I should be filing any paperwork to the police or court, whether to attend and whether to do the whole freeman NAME game thing in the court.

Has anyone been through this process and knows what approach might work?

The duty solicitor is currently in communication with me and I'm wondering whether I should terminate any agreement I may have with them and do the whole thing as a freeman.

Any ideas? (Of course I accept no suggestions will be assumed to be legal advice).

Regards,

Tom
Tom_C
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:24 pm

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby rebelwithoutaclue » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:37 pm

All I can say is never sign anything they ask u including bail sheets. They won't hold u for ever
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.”
rebelwithoutaclue
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Glasgow

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby Dreadlock » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:11 pm

This is what I would do:

1. Sack the duty solicitor. He/she is not on your side and is probably new to the job - hence working at a police station.
2. Go to court and accept the title Mr. <name> when they call it.
3. Plead not guilty on the grounds that at the time of the arrest you were not acting as Mr <name> but simply <name>

The Crown then has to prove, or at least produce evidence, that at the time of the arrest you were acting under the title "Mr" Of course they have no evidence for this and the only witness as to the capacity you were acting under at the time is, of course, you. Move for the case to be dismissed on the grounds that there is no case against Mr <name>. The court is trying the wrong person.
Dreadlock
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:08 am

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby pitano1 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:51 pm

hi tom c

you made a mistake by walking away from the policy officer,instead of questioning them.

their is a precedent stating that it is `not`an offence to withhold your name from a police constable,if i
can find the link i will post it here.

meanwhile it is good to know,that we still have`the freedom to remain silent.
http://rtrs.fmotl.com/

ps.
the real `trick`is having a lawful exscuse not to attend their criminal proceedings.
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
Henry David Thoreau
ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
pitano1
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:38 pm
Location: on the land

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby pitano1 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:33 pm

If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
Henry David Thoreau
ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
pitano1
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:38 pm
Location: on the land

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby Tom_C » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:46 pm

Hi All,

Thank you for the replies.

I'm wondering if I should be serving some paperwork on the police/CPS or the Magistrates Court before the court date such as a "NOU and I" ("Notice of Understanding and Intent") or using the N9 form to contest court jurisdiction.
1). Does anyone have thoughts on this, or experience of what has worked in the past??

The police have created the nonsense charge of obstruction/resisting arrest because I stood by my right not to say anything.

I was told by the duty solicitor that the appointment in court is to establish how I am to plead.

The bail sheet says that I am granted bail and must "surrender" to the "custody" of the Magistrates Court and "...if I fail to do so I may commit an offence and be fined, imprisoned or both."

If I have to go to court, I'm considering standing as a sovereign human being (making a "special appearance") and playing the name game and asking if the Judge/Magistrates are acting under their Oath of office.

I hear that they might call a contempt of court, or do other things...

2). What should I expect them to do to me? I hear some people are put in the cells till the end of the day, removed from court, charged in their absence, etc.

I'm a hardworking father with a completely clean record but this nonsense charge created by the police may seriously affect my career so I'd like to get it cleared.

3). Has anyone dealt with this type of charge without attending court? If so, what did you do, and what was the outcome??

Any suggestions/ideas gratefully received. (Obviously will not be considered legal advice).

Does Veronica still read/post on this site?

Many thanks,

Tom
Tom_C
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:24 pm

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby Prajna » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:14 am

Tom, the last time I was arrested - for a non-recordable 'offence', because I am NFA (no fixed addresss) and they can arrest and present to court if they have no address for summons), they put me in front of a video-link to the maggi's court. At that 'hearing' they didn't want to hear me. It went like this:

Prosecuting solicitor: "Mr ...."

Prajna: "No"

Court: stunned silence

Prajna: If the court wishes me to show any courtesy to this court then the court will afford me the courtesy of addressing me by the name I prefer to be known by. You may address me as Prajna."

Prosecuting Solicitor: "Mr Prajna ..."

Prajna: "No, no, no! I find that title offensive. Just Prajna please!"

Prosecuting Solicitor: "Prajna, you are charged that on the ..."

Prajna: "Hang on a moment! Who is this speaking to me? We have not even been introduced! I'm just seeing some joker on a video screen."

Prosecuting Solicitor: "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm ... the prosecuting solicitor."

Prajna: "Ok"

Prosecuting Solicitor: "You are charged that on the ... at Cheshire Oaks, you were found driving a Swift Kontiki, registration mark ... whithout having a current test certificate for that vehicle."

voice off: "How do you plead?"

Prajna: "Who's this talking? I'm looking at a prosecuting solicitor and someone else, who I have never been introduced to, is talking at me!"

voice off: "Sorry." (camera pans across to a triad of stuffy-looking magistrates.)

Chief Magi: "How do you plead?"

Prajna: "Your worship, I decline to enter a plea."

Chief Magi: "Then the court will enter a plea for you."

Prajna: "That is all very well, your worship. If the court wishes to enter a plea and to defend the charge that is up to them. That is the court's plea, not my plea, I decline to enter a plea."

Chief Magi: "You are remanded on unconditional bail to appear here at 1:30pm on the 27th and I have to inform you that you will be committing an offence if you fail to attend. Do you understand?"

Prajna: "Your worship, I am very hesitant to use the word understand because my reading of the law books, and the research of others, leads me to believe that the word 'understand' has a different meaning in a legal context; it appears to be interpreted in that context to mean that one submits to another's jurisdiction and I am certainly not prepared to do that."

Lights fade, curtain falls and Prajna is whipped out of the video-link room post haste.

Detention Officer: "Wow! I have never seen them get rid of someone so quickly! They didn't want to hear what you were saying, did they?"

Very quickly afterwards I was released without having given my name (never mind that they already knew it, I had never given it), and without signing a single thing, not even the bail form.

What happened next?

Well, on the 28th PC Richard Phillips, my arresting officer turned up with a mate and the following conversation transpired:

Richard: "We have come to see if you would like a lift to the court because we know you have no transport (haha)"

Prajna: "Have you cleared up all the lawlessness and corruption in the system then?"

Richard and his mate: "Ha,ha,ha!"

Prajna: "Well it doesn't seem to be the kind of business I would be involved in then, does it?"

Richard: "(haha), well we're 4 minutes late for court already. See ya."

The court case proceeded in my absence, Mr ... was found guilty of driving with no MOT, fined £400 with £185 costs, and everyone was happy. Needless to say I will not be paying the fine. I never mind what they do in my absence, so long as they always behave in my presence.

How you handle it will depend on quite how much you realise about yourself and about the system: that it is ALL by consent and you don't have to consent to ANYTHING; that the magistrates 'court' is not a court at all but an administrative tribunal, which has no power to enforce the law (that last comes directly from a barrister btw); that you are a sentient, living, breathing, free and sovereign man (if you so choose) and that so long as you do not follow any of their orders they have no jurisdiction over you.

Personally, I do not even engage in paper warfare with them. Fuck their forms (yet another tax on my time and energy). Those are all THEIR games and they are welcome to engage in whatever games, deceptions and criminality they like, so long as they don't try to involve me in them.

What happens now? Who knows? Do they have the courage to arrest me on a bench warrant? Send bailiffs to take the nothing that I do not own? You can be well assured that whatever action they take will end up costing them a fortune in fiat notes, time, stress and credibility; the very fact that they arrested me and then failed to follow PACE has rendered their detention of me Unlawfull Imprisonment, an IPCC complaint has already been made (by my barrister friend, thanks Jack) and I have been assured that the going rate for unlafull imprisonment is £25,000 per day, plus aggravating factiors, like the unlawfull use of handcuffs on a peaceful man. Sure it will take a while to get the cash (maybe 12 months?) but in the meantime I can delight in the fact that a neighbouring force will be called in to go over ALL their detention records for the last seven years and they will be subject to unannounced spot checks by lay visitors, probably on a daily basis; the custody sergeant, at least, will find that his job is seriously under review; and the whole detention staff will become proficient in understanding (in all senses of the word) the PACE Code, and will be certain to follow it to the letter.

I hope this is of some inspiration to you.

Namaste
Prajna
FREEDOM Best Before: 11 Sept 2001
http://tomboy-pink.co.uk/ and http://DeclarePeace.org.uk/
User avatar
Prajna
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:51 pm
Location: UK

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby frogmanbrabs » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:42 am

Well done Mr. Prajna ooops sorry I meant Prajna lol. They don't like it up em and the more of us who stick it up em the more painful it will become for them. Did you follow up the charge notice with a conditional offer or anything? That's what I did and on both occassions I had no reply which lead to a claim of Permanent Irrevocable Lawful Estoppel By Acquiescence. It's over a year since the first and 4 months since the last and I've heard no more from them. :clap:
An Open Mind can take you on a journey to anywhere.
User avatar
frogmanbrabs
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: Planet Earth

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby pitano1 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:07 pm

prajna... :shake:
well done bruv.

good job..frogmanbrabs-keep up the good
work.. :yes:
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
Henry David Thoreau
ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
pitano1
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:38 pm
Location: on the land

Re: Granted bail to appear in Magistrates Court - Help needed.

Postby Tom_C » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:37 pm

Thanks Prajna. That is awesome!

Also, thanks to pitano1!
Looks like that case in the link posted was held in a proper court, Queens Bench. That's a de jure court right?
Did the defendant have a solicitor though? He wasn't representing himself then? Looks like it was on appeal? How did it get to Queens bench? I presume he did the whole freeman thing in the Magistrates court to start with?

The nonsense charge I was presented with is in the local Magistrates Court so I've got to come up with something soon... The court date is a few days away and the solicitor is going to meet me there.

The outcome of the case will pretty much determine if I have a job or not as my former partner told my employer to cause trouble.
The thing that really p*sses me off is that I did nothing. No crime (harm or loss) and no breach of the peace.
The arresting officer said it was to prevent a breach of the peace! I said to him, by grabbing my arm - that is assault and all the cop cars and riot van that turned up breached the bloody peace of a quiet, respectable neighbourhood!
Tom_C
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:24 pm

Next

Return to The Court System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron