Appeal against DWP for ESA

Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby Hilary » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:39 pm

Hi, it's been a while since I've been in here, but just had to post this question to see if anyone else has been through the same appeal and if so were you successful using knowledge of Common Law etc? Also are the DWP operating as a business dept. within govt and how would a human being deal with this sort of nonsense?

I have been claiming ESA (Employment Support Allowance) for over a year now, due to having some health issues.Back in June a decision was made to stop my claim for ESA so that I would have to return to claiming JSA(Job Seeker's Allowance), but I have appealed against it. I have received a copy of my case notes from the DWP, but no date for appeal yet.

If there is a way in which I can challenge the DWP in their kangaroo court(without assistance from the CAB) I'd really be greatful. I'm in Scotland so hoping I can still apply some freeman practice here.

Thanks in advance folks. :peace:
'Mother Earth is about to give birth, become a star and ascend' George Kavassilas 2011.
User avatar
Hilary
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:10 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby alf » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:58 pm

Hilary wrote:Hi, it's been a while since I've been in here, but just had to post this question to see if anyone else has been through the same appeal and if so were you successful using knowledge of Common Law etc? Also are the DWP operating as a business dept. within govt and how would a human being deal with this sort of nonsense?

I have been claiming ESA (Employment Support Allowance) for over a year now, due to having some health issues.Back in June a decision was made to stop my claim for ESA so that I would have to return to claiming JSA(Job Seeker's Allowance), but I have appealed against it. I have received a copy of my case notes from the DWP, but no date for appeal yet.

If there is a way in which I can challenge the DWP in their kangaroo court(without assistance from the CAB) I'd really be greatful. I'm in Scotland so hoping I can still apply some freeman practice here.

Thanks in advance folks. :peace:


hi i just called the medical examiners bluff,i walked into the room armed with a medical report from my doctor,just before she started the medical i asked if she would take the m/report into account she said that it had nothing to do with the examination and the test would go ahead, ok i then give her the killer blow,i wrote a letter out to the general medical council saying the examiner was ignoring my medical report i had this ready before going into the atos center,after reading it the doctor refused to go ahead with the examination.
a week later i have received a phone call from the dwp saying i had refused the medical and must go ahead with another examination in the future,write your own letter to the gmc saying the same about the doctor on the appeals panel,these doctors have taken the hippocratic oath and must follow it or suffer the consequences from the gmc.
the doctor lied to the dwp saying i refused the medical
i will get back and let you know the outcome hope this helps dont be afraid to challenge the dwp panel .
one more thing the last time i had to go to appeal they was only a judge and a doctor interviewing me,i asked where the member of the public that as far as im aware must be present at the tribunal appeal?
alf
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby pedawson » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:30 pm

Well done Hilary, look forward to the next part of the situation.

In your post and their reply they mention the 'KILLER' blow they have and I would like for us all to concentrate on this very much. Of course remembering to pay equal attention to the whole situation.

What I am talking about is the 'LINE' they are using more and more 'So you are refusing! to ...'
Now I know this statement is designed to elicit a negative 'NO which we all know, in turn, puts the defendant on the back foot and requires a following clarification statement that will NEVER be allowed to air the light of day. So, whilst not being allowed to counter the statement 'So you are refusing! to ...' one is acquiescing to the original 'DEMAND'. This is a dirty trick and requires some eloquent thought to produce an answer that puts the ball right back into their court.

There are a number of suggestions to reply when asked this questions, however I would like to ask everyone to come up with alternatives.
The answer is to be designed to answer the question but not acquiesce.

Here are a few suggestions: Topic title 'So you are refusing! to ...' http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8170
(I think to save this thread and its continuity another thread should be created, I will do this now and include the link for responses)
I have no wish to disrupt this thread but it is important and may be of use to many others when asked this question.

I hope you understand Hilary.

Back to the topic subject.

Namaste, rev;
Don't be surprised to discover that luck favours those who are prepared
User avatar
pedawson
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby Hilary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:09 pm

Alf wrote:
a week later i have received a phone call from the dwp saying i had refused the medical and must go ahead with another examination in the future,write your own letter to the gmc saying the same about the doctor on the appeals panel,these doctors have taken the hippocratic oath and must follow it or suffer the consequences from the gmc.
the doctor lied to the dwp saying i refused the medical
i will get back and let you know the outcome hope this helps dont be afraid to challenge the dwp panel .
one more thing the last time i had to go to appeal they was only a judge and a doctor interviewing me,i asked where the member of the public that as far as im aware must be present at the tribunal appeal?

Interesting Alf, thanks for the info. These so-called 'Doctors' are acting more and more like bureaucrats by the day and less and less in the interest of healthcare...they will do anything for a salary.
At the your last tribunal appeal, did you have to stand for the Judge and did you have to sign anything? If I am made to stand for the Judge, I won't!!!
Have you had an outcome from your Appeal yet Alf? Hope it was good news. :sun:
Also, did you get an answer to your question in regard to members of the public not being present?

My Appeal is on 7 Dec.

Hilz
:sun:
'Mother Earth is about to give birth, become a star and ascend' George Kavassilas 2011.
User avatar
Hilary
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:10 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby Hilary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:30 pm

pedawson wrote:Well done Hilary, look forward to the next part of the situation.

In your post and their reply they mention the 'KILLER' blow they have and I would like for us all to concentrate on this very much. Of course remembering to pay equal attention to the whole situation.

What I am talking about is the 'LINE' they are using more and more 'So you are refusing! to ...'
Now I know this statement is designed to elicit a negative 'NO which we all know, in turn, puts the defendant on the back foot and requires a following clarification statement that will NEVER be allowed to air the light of day. So, whilst not being allowed to counter the statement 'So you are refusing! to ...' one is acquiescing to the original 'DEMAND'. This is a dirty trick and requires some eloquent thought to produce an answer that puts the ball right back into their court.

There are a number of suggestions to reply when asked this questions, however I would like to ask everyone to come up with alternatives.
The answer is to be designed to answer the question but not acquiesce.

Here are a few suggestions: Topic title 'So you are refusing! to ...' http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8170
(I think to save this thread and its continuity another thread should be created, I will do this now and include the link for responses)
I have no wish to disrupt this thread but it is important and may be of use to many others when asked this question.

I hope you understand Hilary.

Back to the topic subject.

Namaste, rev;


Thanks rev, Appeal is on 7 Dec, so I'm going armed with the knowledge that they are Corporations treating us a corporate entities and the Judge and so-called 'Examiner' are the executors of the will of the corporation known as the DWP. Still it's how we answer their corporate trap questions as you say, that matters.
I'm all ears on your suggestions...in terms of not acqiuescing, but still answering their question.
Will check thread out, thanks.
Hilz
:sun:
'Mother Earth is about to give birth, become a star and ascend' George Kavassilas 2011.
User avatar
Hilary
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:10 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby alf » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:05 pm

Hilary wrote:Alf wrote:
a week later i have received a phone call from the dwp saying i had refused the medical and must go ahead with another examination in the future,write your own letter to the gmc saying the same about the doctor on the appeals panel,these doctors have taken the hippocratic oath and must follow it or suffer the consequences from the gmc.
the doctor lied to the dwp saying i refused the medical
i will get back and let you know the outcome hope this helps dont be afraid to challenge the dwp panel .
one more thing the last time i had to go to appeal they was only a judge and a doctor interviewing me,i asked where the member of the public that as far as im aware must be present at the tribunal appeal?

Interesting Alf, thanks for the info. These so-called 'Doctors' are acting more and more like bureaucrats by the day and less and less in the interest of healthcare...they will do anything for a salary.
At the your last tribunal appeal, did you have to stand for the Judge and did you have to sign anything? If I am made to stand for the Judge, I won't!!!
Have you had an outcome from your Appeal yet Alf? Hope it was good news. :sun:
Also, did you get an answer to your question in regard to members of the public not being present?

My Appeal is on 7 Dec.

Hilz
:sun:

i think these so called doctors are on a bonus for every patient taken off the sick so must have an agenda to cash in .
this is my 4th appeal if im forced to be examined again,it started in 2008 and its been non stop since,no you dont stand for the judge its quite informal just you ,your solicitor the judge and a doctor sitting at a line of tables, i won my first 3 appeals getting maximum points in all cases, then cameron got into power and amended the rules to make it harder for the sick to challenge the atos examinations ,so im waiting for a new date for another atos examination[3rd medical]after both a nurse and the doc mentioned refused to do the medical as i mentioned earlier.
no answer on the member of the public or a reason why he/she was taken off the panel,im asuming the laymen member of the public was passing to many patience back to the sickness benifit,if i need to go back to the panel i will be asking again what happened to the public person and why he is not here,it could be an illegal act not to have these people on the panel.
if any one knows why it would be helpful ?
i just bought a mini camera to record the next medical,a bit covert but needs must this lot seem to say an do what ever they like with out fear of come backs, its time to take the battle to atos and the doctors doing the dirty work for the government.
alf
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby nayga73 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:51 pm

just a thought,I'm thinking at this next hearing,if any of these officials deny you any of your rights,remind them that although the hearing may well be in the public arena,in the private arena you will nail them to the wall if they even think about infringing your rights.If someone said that to me,and i knew i was taking the piss,I'd be inclined to re-think why I was taking the piss in the first place!If ya catch my drift? :8-): Hope this helps :sun:

peace and love
nayga73
'Lies can run for a year, but truth can catch them in a day'. Old african proverb
nayga73
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:38 pm

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby alf » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:48 pm

hiya just popped on hoping the appeal went well today,??
alf
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Appeal against DWP for ESA

Postby Dipsy » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:56 am

Seems to me its not so much the process of a medical but the sheer blatant lies that are causing all the problems. Generally sick people are being awarded ZERO points as the "data entry clerk" and not a real doctor records bogus information.

SO what can we do? Well you know before you even go by their own statistics some 70% of people are going to be awarded less than 15 points. In which case you might as well put ATOS on NOTICE you are NOT refusing to undertake a medical but for your own safety and protection under both NATO and European Rights for persons with Disabilities you will be video recording the entire session! Outline in the notice you shall attend UPON PROOF OF CLAIM you can not record your medical and UPON PROOF of claim that the information and evidence collected can not be used in future proceedings in addition you will bring with you witnesses and video and audio recording devices and that blatant lies will NOT be tolerated and the evidence collected by you shall and WILL be used in court. I know this is going to be a tough ride but think about it you are going to get your money stopped any way so you might as well make a stand for your rights to have the medical conducted truthfully putting them on notice. Im pretty sure they wont even allow you to proceed and will enter you refused to undertake the medical or you didn't even turn up! This then gives you grounds to take the matter to a real court for disability discrimination. Bear in mind its extremely difficult to prove your case once you sign their standard disclaimer and have a load of shit entered as your "clinical profile". You can go one further with a fee schedule and claim say i dunno £100,000 for loss of income and discrimination should they stop your money but don't try this unless you definite want to fight this in court.

See the pattern here? What you are facing is a military medical and military tribunal with all the checks and balances stripped away including your Rights IF you allow it to happen.

Look forward to someone to start crafting a nice NOTICE to send to these ATOS clowns!
Dipsy
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:58 pm


Return to Frequently Asked Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest