Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby Farmer » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:02 am

This may be another avenue:

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=1858&p=18863#p18863
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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby huntingross » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:45 pm

Nicely directed Farmer, I have quickly checked this and it looks iron clad...they have 18 days to have it set aside, and if in the process you have lodged an affidavit with them, the chances are they haven't rebutted it, then the court isn't going to set it aside, then 3 days later you petition for bankruptcy and goodnight Vienna.
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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby ethospete » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:22 am

I found this thread on a Goggle search as I too have been researching Commercial Liens - as has already been stated there is plenty of American information on the subject but I've been finding it very hard to uncover useful information which is specifically relevant to the UK.

I'd like to throw a new angle in for discussion and value your thoughts.

From these posts the angle so far has been looking at Liens with a view to lodging one against another person or company.

I've been approaching this from a slightly different angle - one of my businesses sells Anonymous New Mexico LLC's for their unique asset protection benefits as the company can own land, property and any other assets which then cannot be traced back to you - not even the New Mexico Government know it's your company unless you wish to disclose ownership.

Now, my point - what if the New Mexico LLC levied a commercial lien against you and your property.

In UK law which lien would have the strongest hold over the value of your home...? The New Mexico LLC's Lien or your mortgage company's one...?

Hopefully this adds some new food for thought and I look forward to your feedback with great interest.

All the best

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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby emmanualgoldstein » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:25 am

MY understanding of liens isnt that much. I understand it like a mechanics lien, where if you dont pay for the repairs to your car, the mechanic gets to keep your car until you do.

By the same principal, since the council tax is supposed to pay for justice/democracy/peace, ... , am I not entitled to withold my council tax as lien until such things as these things are restored?
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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby huntingross » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:41 am

Hi ethos

In UK law which lien would have the strongest hold over the value of your home...?


My understanding of this is all liens are equal, priority over the security is based on the size of the lien....a £1m lien would consume the security first over a £500k lien.

BUT....I could be wrong....the info is so scarce on this.
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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby Freeman-B » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:22 pm

As far as i am aware it still needs to be registered with the coastguard, because they were the only ones that could chain a ship back in them there olden days


AND modern days - this still happens in, for example, yachting, where a boat hasn't paid its bills - it can be (and I've seen it) chained to the dock until the debt is paid.

Now, given that every corporation is, in effect a "vessel" trading "on the high seas" of commerce, the same rules apply.

Just to check - have made and FOI request of treasury here - http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/attachment_of_commercial_lien

Will keep you informed of responses

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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby free_spirit » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:14 pm

Freeman-B wrote:
As far as i am aware it still needs to be registered with the coastguard, because they were the only ones that could chain a ship back in them there olden days


AND modern days - this still happens in, for example, yachting, where a boat hasn't paid its bills - it can be (and I've seen it) chained to the dock until the debt is paid.

Now, given that every corporation is, in effect a "vessel" trading "on the high seas" of commerce, the same rules apply.

Just to check - have made and FOI request of treasury here - http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/attachment_of_commercial_lien

Will keep you informed of responses

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Great move Freeman-B

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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby ethospete » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:06 pm

huntingross wrote:Hi ethos

In UK law which lien would have the strongest hold over the value of your home...?


My understanding of this is all liens are equal, priority over the security is based on the size of the lien....a £1m lien would consume the security first over a £500k lien.

BUT....I could be wrong....the info is so scarce on this.


Many thanks for your feedback.

If that were correct and the NM LLC places a much larger Lien on your property it would then effectively become the preferred creditor.

If you stopped paying your mortgage company and they tried to repossess your home, if the theory is correct, the NM LLC would then stop them being able to do that in court as there is a larger Lien in place that effectively trumps their one.

That would still leave the fact that the mortgage company holds the deeds to the property, and this obviously needs much more research, but it could be an option to try if somebody's home is about to be repossessed and there's no other options available to them.

All the best

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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby huntingross » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:10 pm

Hi ethos.....
NM LLC would then stop them being able to do that in court as there is a larger Lien in place that effectively trumps their one.


That's my understanding.

That would still leave the fact that the mortgage company holds the deeds to the property, and this obviously needs much more research, but it could be an option to try if somebody's home is about to be repossessed and there's no other options available to them.


I'm not sure they do hold the deeds...the trouble I'm having getting mine back....apparently you can get the deeds from the land registry...but they are just a colour of deed anyway and pretty worthless (this applies to the deeds from the lender too - if they have them)

If you wanted to save someones bacon with a move like that you would have to have the paperwork in place by at least 6 months to ensure they couldn't try and null it.
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Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby ethospete » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:49 pm

Thanks again for the feedback and I'll post anything further that I am able to uncover.

All the best

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