Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby huntingross » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:46 am

My understanding on this so far is minimal, there appears to be very little information on this subject, yet Jock has produced a great link that doesn't even come up in all the searches I have done.

If you are placing a lien against property, the land registry seems like the right place. Councils will put (what I always called a burden) against your property if they need to do emergency repairs for example and can't find an owner to pay for it. They get paid back on the sale of the property, just as you describe.

Seemingly anyone can place a lien, and this can (seemingly) cause all sorts of issues, it can only be monetised through court or the lienee acquiesces to it. Obviously if you don't agree with it, you'd have to take the lienor to court to have it removed....if they dont have the rights to put it there in the first place, the penalty to them sounds extreme from what I've read....so dont place them frivilously.

I becoming convinced that as long as your claim is just and demonstrable, then sighting legal clauses etc is not required....so its a question of recording it and where.

I shall ask the estate guys at work about burdens on property and see what they come up with....and the guys in building control might even have standard forms as a clue.
Success nourishes hope
User avatar
huntingross
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: FIDACH, Near Edinburgh

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby free_spirit » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:05 am

huntingross wrote:
Seemingly anyone can place a lien, and this can (seemingly) cause all sorts of issues, it can only be monetised through court or the lienee acquiesces to it. Obviously if you don't agree with it, you'd have to take the lienor to court to have it removed....if they dont have the rights to put it there in the first place, the penalty to them sounds extreme from what I've read....so dont place them frivilously.


I agree, it's a serious matter not to be applied frivolously. I guess though, where your claim of right is knowingly violated with a schedule of fees/penalties
in place. (For example being harrased by policymen in regards to travelling on the land in your private conveyance which is not subject to statute) it could be
used against the violator as a means of making him cough up and perhaps settle out of court?

James
WAKE UP PEOPLE OR ELSE ON YOUR DEATH BED YOU WILL BE THINKING, WHAT THE F**K WAS ALL THAT ABOUT
User avatar
free_spirit
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby Farmer » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:35 pm

Maybe there is an avenue with this:

Additionally, estoppel in a defence may also provide a legal basis for a claim, when proof exists that the undermined actions or false promises, or the negligence to present the facts, caused harm to the defendant.


From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby JockFry » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:25 pm

Here is a better link to Commercial Liens (its basically the same link different site) http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/comliens.shtml
you can click on the links in this one just makes it a bit easier (COMMERCIAL LIENS ARE NOT TO BE MESSED WITH UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING!!!!) theirs some people that have had it blow up in their face because they didn't know what they where doing
PEACE

Jock
"You are better than no-one but their is no-one better than you"

"Evil man makes me kill you, Evil man makes you kill me, Evil man makes me kill you, even though we're only families apart"
Jimi Hendrix MACHINE GUN
JockFry
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:13 am
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby Farmer » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:58 pm

If it is not possible to do this in the UK, it may be possible to do this on an international basis in the future if the freedom movement develops in that way. I remember reading in Sir James Goldsmiths autobiography that he once had a problem with a contract with a French oil company Elf. This involved an oil field in central America where the oil company was trying to steal the rights to the oil field by not honouring the contract. What he did was to sue the oil company in the US. The oil company claimed that the US courts did not have jurisdiction because the oil company was a state owned company. The judge thought otherwise and told the two company representatives that they have two weeks to come up with something. In the end Goldsmith got what he wanted. So I am thinking that it may be possible to use liens on the companies assets in the US. You also see this a lot with divorse cases where one side decides to divorce in the US when the other side has assets there.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby huntingross » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:51 pm

This sounds do-able Farmer...but for smaller entities that are not companies would that work, or even be necessary, maybe the UCC is relevant (although haven't found anyone accept it works in the UK) and gets used as the template for commercial liens in the UK....it would make things easier, because I'm finding zip on this subject....when I'm back into the office on wednesday I might find some more.
Success nourishes hope
User avatar
huntingross
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: FIDACH, Near Edinburgh

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby Zaniwhoop » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:42 pm

Yeah, I'm not finding much yet, but no internet during the day for me at the moment :o( However liens must certainly be doable over here as here is a case of a solicitor having put one on another solicitor http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/law-report-solicitor-breached-undertaking-over-lien-1361062.html

The placing of one on a US company somehow looks very tempting for us to do on GE Money who the alleged mortgage on our home is with. More research needed. Good work so far peeps :yes:
Shaw's principle.
"A government which robs Peter
to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul"

Sublato fundamento cadit opus The foundation being removed, the superstructure falls.
User avatar
Zaniwhoop
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby IamallthatIam » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:26 pm

I was amused by the fact that it was in the "Obituaries" section :rotfl:
Invito beneficium non datur - A benefit is not conferred upon one against his consent.
I DO NOT offer legal advice
- "I just say what I say because everyone is entitled to my opinion!" -

- Saffi Elder (Aged 7)-
User avatar
IamallthatIam
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:36 am

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby Farmer » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:30 pm

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien

In other common-law countries, the term lien refers to a very specific type of security interest, being a passive right to retain (but not sell) property until the debt or other obligation is discharged. In contrast to the usage of the term in the USA, in other countries it refers to a purely possessory form of security interest; indeed, when possession of the property is lost, the lien is released.[1] However, common-law countries also recognize a slightly anomalous form of security interest called an "equitable lien" which arises in certain rare instances.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Liens - Commercial/Equitable or ?

Postby huntingross » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:20 am

Hello Si, an amusing link, and good to see 2 solicitors scrapping it out.

The solicitors lien is something they protect themselves with when they do work for a client on account....until fully paid they retain possession of the paperwork....so alas in this story, it wasn't a lien from one solicitor to another, they had tried to uphold their original claim....solicitor two had other ideas.

This kind of lien is held to be in force for anyone doing work on account....mechanics being the most common one that people will encounter...you don't get your car back until the work and materials are paid for.
Success nourishes hope
User avatar
huntingross
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: FIDACH, Near Edinburgh

PreviousNext

Return to Frequently Asked Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests