Some questions that were posed to me recently

Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby defiance » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:07 pm

Hi everyone!

LOVE THIS FORUM! I am pretty new here. I have been studying the freeman approach for maybe a couple of weeks now and it is in line with my beliefs and what I was already aware of but it has also given me a lot of extra valuable knowledge.

I often run into this guy who in my opinion is very conditioned and unable to see any other ways. To try and challenge what I told him and in an attempt to be Mr Smartypants he posed these questions on a forum recently:

1 How do you propose a person is to function in this society without a birth certificate?

2 Do "they" just quote you that it is their "God given right" to do so without restriction or application of any "law" they do not agree with?

3 While your ideas might sound nice in principle, if they were applied en-mass it would be total anarchy. People simply choosing which laws they want to "allow" to apply to them, what could possibly go wrong?

I can already see obvious flaws in the wording that he chose to use. I am now wondering if someone here who has far more knowledge on these subjects how they would answer such questions and leave this guy speechless. I have a rough idea already but was after the opinion of someone here more knowledgable than myself! Thanks you sooo much for this awesome forum and the invaluable insight it has provided me with so far!!!!!


namaste
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby Freeman Stephen » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:48 am

The answer to number 2 is yes. Is it your friends belief that someone has a god given right to impose laws never agreed to? That type of thing died out with the divine right of kings although it is having a resurgence today along with fast track prosecutions and eugenics. Thanks to an over controlled and over trusted mass media.
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby defiance » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:43 am

Thanks Stephen for your reply I fully agree with what you have stated on that particular point. Although I do not agree with the guys wording LAW. Because we make a clear distinction of what the law actually is here right? Maybe I am wrong please set me straight if this is the case? I appreciate your help and any other help I can get.
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby Freeman Stephen » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:42 am

Whats the chance of explaining the difference between legislation and law to a guy who still believes in the divine right of kings. Legislation given the force of law is colloquialised to being law. (and consent is assumed because everyones shitting themselves from being truncheoned).
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby kevin » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:11 am

defiance wrote:
1 How do you propose a person is to function in this society without a birth certificate?

2 Do "they" just quote you that it is their "God given right" to do so without restriction or application of any "law" they do not agree with?

3 While your ideas might sound nice in principle, if they were applied en-mass it would be total anarchy. People simply choosing which laws they want to "allow" to apply to them, what could possibly go wrong?




1. I function every day now without my birth certificate, what do you need one for? they asked to see mine 7 years ago when I applied for a passport, when was the last time anyone needed to see yours?

2. They believe it is their right to impose their will upon us, I did not give them permission to impose their will upon me, did you?

3. Which meaning of Anarchy does he refer to?

Definition of ANARCHY
1
a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2
a : absence or denial of any authority or established order
b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>


If he refers to 1c then yes please.
We already chose which of their statutes to break every day, it isn't anarchy? No. we are guided by our own moral compass, common law would exist not statute law so No harm or loss to another individual, use no mischief in your contracts, do not breach the peace.
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby pitano1 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:28 am

your freind,has been conditioned to use the state definition of anarchy,which is
understandable,from a state,that wants the masses to remain unable to think for themselves

this is all part,of the control grid/psych warfare.

whereas a more un hysterical definition,is nothing more than the following.


anarchy defined.

http://www.katesharpleylibrary.net/cnp66m

looks like 1c :giggle:
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
Henry David Thoreau
ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby hurn » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:56 am

defiance wrote:Hi everyone!

LOVE THIS FORUM! I am pretty new here. I have been studying the freeman approach for maybe a couple of weeks now and it is in line with my beliefs and what I was already aware of but it has also given me a lot of extra valuable knowledge.

I often run into this guy who in my opinion is very conditioned and unable to see any other ways. To try and challenge what I told him and in an attempt to be Mr Smartypants he posed these questions on a forum recently:

1 How do you propose a person is to function in this society without a birth certificate?

2 Do "they" just quote you that it is their "God given right" to do so without restriction or application of any "law" they do not agree with?

3 While your ideas might sound nice in principle, if they were applied en-mass it would be total anarchy. People simply choosing which laws they want to "allow" to apply to them, what could possibly go wrong?

I can already see obvious flaws in the wording that he chose to use. I am now wondering if someone here who has far more knowledge on these subjects how they would answer such questions and leave this guy speechless. I have a rough idea already but was after the opinion of someone here more knowledgable than myself! Thanks you sooo much for this awesome forum and the invaluable insight it has provided me with so far!!!!!


namaste



1)birth cerificates are a form of registering ..you do not need to register to so called function we are not machines we do not function we live
2)i dont have any god given rights as there is no god and he /she cant give rights unless he owns me these laws are statutes company rules ,i dont work for the company so i did not sign a contract with them so i dont live by there rules i live by common law natural law
3)we are all adults so i think we can look after eachother without threat and malice easy as long as you dont try and make a profit out of someone else
DONT WORRY IT WONT BE LONG NOW the countdown has started
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby defiance » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:26 pm

Thanks a TONNE all of you who replied. I used all of your answers to create my reply to him and added my own ideas to it as well.

Besides what you all said I also added...

Within this very context of ‘anarchy; I also personally believe that some people have a very distorted and false view of the term ‘anarchy’. Ignorance is bliss. Some seem to think it is a fashion statement, or that ‘anarchy’ is just about smashing things. The level of ignorance is astounding. For me ‘anarchy’ is about 'caring' and 'love'. It is the opposite of apathy and having ones head in the sand and being a robot/drone without any emotions. It is the feeling or sense that we have an obligation to help those who are being oppressed and those who are being negatively impacted upon as a result of ‘capitalistic dictatorships’.

‘Anarchism is about the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the shackles of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government control that inhibits us from growing and developing positively as free human beings.’ (Emma Goldman)

Considering the countless failures of the current system to for example on one level deal with the grotesque disparity in wealth between rich and poor within our own confines and beyond those, we can only do a LOT better.

People should never be afraid to cheer on and spread real freedom because it cuts off the violent and political power structure to everyone.


Lets see how this guy responds to that answer (if the moderators where I replied to him dont delete my answer before he can reply to me again). I will keep you all updated. Once again thanks a lot for your input!!!!

namaste and lots of love
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby defiance » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:08 pm

Ok he responded.

Firstly, here is basically my reply to him as a whole which he responded to as you can see further below under each italic statement he quoted(thanks for everyone's input)....

1. Birth cerificates are a form of registering ..you do not need to register to so called function we are not machines we do not function we live

People function every day now without a birth certificate, what do you need one for? When was the last time anyone needed to see yours?

2. They believe it is their right to impose their will upon us, I did not give them permission to impose their will upon me, did you? This type of thing died out with the divine right of kings, although it is having a resurgence today along with fast track prosecutions and eugenics. Thanks to an over controlled and over trusted mass media.

3. Which meaning of Anarchy are you referring to?

Definition of Anarchy
3.1
a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
3.2
a : absence or denial of any authority or established order
b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>

If you are referring to 3.1c then yes please.
We already chose which of their statutes to break every day, it isn't anarchy? No. We are guided by our own moral compass, common law would exist not statute law so "no harm or loss to another individual", use no mischief in your contracts, do not breach the peace.

Within this very context of ‘anarchy; I also personally believe that some people have a very distorted and false view of the term ‘anarchy’. Some seem to think it is a fashion statement, or that ‘anarchy’ is just about smashing things. The level of ignorance is astounding. For me ‘anarchy’ is about 'caring' and 'love'. It is the opposite of apathy and having ones head in the sand and being a robot/drone without any emotions. It is the feeling or sense that we have an obligation to help those who are being oppressed and those who are being negatively impacted upon as a result of ‘capitalistic dictatorships’ or shall we call it 'corporate fascist dictatorships'.

‘Anarchism is about the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the shackles of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government control that inhibits us from growing and developing positively as free human beings.’ (Emma Goldman)

Considering the countless failures of the current system to for example on one level deal with the grotesque disparity in wealth between rich and poor within our own confines and beyond those, we can only do a LOT better.

People should never be afraid to cheer on and spread real freedom because it cuts off the violent and political power structure to everyone.


Here are his replies to some of what I said....please note the italic bits are only small parts of my agrument that he quoted back to me in giving his reply under each bit (the whole argument I used in reply to his initial questions can be seen above in the bold text)

you do not need to register to so called function

In a society that requires forms of identification for most if not all services, yes you need it to function.

we are not machines we do not function we live

It is a term for essentially the same thing.

They believe it is their right to impose their will upon us

Before you or I were born, our society decided such things. If sufficient people decided that it should no longer apply, do you really think it would be the case in a Democratic society?

This type of thing died out with the divine right of kings

Two entirely different concepts.
eugenics
What does that have to do with anything?

3. Which meaning of Anarchy are you referring to?

Closest would be:
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
Having citizens actively choosing which laws do or do not apply to them might as well constitute an "absence of governmental authority".

Some seem to think it is a fashion statement, or that ‘anarchy’ is just about smashing things. The level of ignorance is astounding.

I never suggested anything of the sort.

For me ‘anarchy’ is about 'caring' and 'love'.

I think I lost any incentive to continue this discussion with you.

Considering the countless failures of the current system

Feel free to point to one that is better. Currently by a lot of factors Communism is "better" because China is in a huge state of growth while most "superior" Democratic Western nations are struggling. I'm personally not aware of one single example of an Anarchical-based state/country that has worked. The concept of absolute freedom is inherently flawed because eventually one person's "freedoms" will impose on someone else's.

we can only do a LOT better

That I can agree with and I believe giving more power to the people (Direct Democracy / Citizen Initiated Referenda) would help. However I don't believe a complete lack of government is the answer.

real freedom

As I said earlier, an inherently flawed concept for many reasons.

I pretty much wrote exactly what you guys said but changed it a bit and added to it (the italics he quotes are only very small segments of my reply which he quoted aand took apart to try and base his reply on). Any ideas for a good comeback? I am working on one now would love to know how you guys would deal with such a person. Thanks again everyone! I greatly appreciate any help I can get. It is also helping me in learn more and express my self better in the future.

namaste and love
Last edited by defiance on Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Some questions that were posed to me recently

Postby Freeman Stephen » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:14 pm

The "consent of the goverened" or "the will of the people" is the very political theory that sent the political theory of divine right of kings into sea. He is right they are two entirely different concepts, so incompatible that there were revolutions in france, america and russia which caused all other western states to recognise that this form of slavery is not valid.
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