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Here's my problem

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:47 pm
by huntingross
So far, to question the validity of a Statute, we've used Black's Law Dictionary (a US based document). I don't have a copy of this but taking this on face value, the definition is :

'A Statute is a rule created by a representative governing body of a society designed to create common goals, which carries the force of law by the consent of the governed.'

The Oxford English definition is :

'Statute | A law or decree made by a monarch or legislative authority.'

There's my problem, they're not the same, so asking some legal bod what he thinks :

Q : Black's dictionary seems to be the US legal dictionary 'bible'...would those definitions hold true for the UK just because our legal systems are basically the same ?

A : Mark. I wouldn't rely on this US legal dictionary as a definitions 'bible' for Scots law, UK law or English law even though there are similarities. Our systems have marked variations.

This is my attempt to try and keep this straight in my head...if this doesn't work, are there better or different explanations, because otherwise the arguement seems to fall over.

Starting point - OED definitions :

Statute | A law or decree made by a monarch or legislative authority.

Law | A rule of conduct imposed by secular authority. The body of rules, whether formally enacted or customary, which a particular State or community recognizes as governing the actions of its subjects or members and which it may enforce by imposing penalties.

Rule | A principle, regulation, or maxim governing individual conduct

Conduct | Provision for guidance or conveyance

Decree | an authoritative decision having the force of law.

Recognize | Acknowledge the existence, legality, or validity of, esp. by formal approval or sanction; accord notice or attention to; treat as worthy of consideration; show appreciation of, reward.

Rearranging and substituting :

Made by a legislative authority, a Statute is | A decree

ditto | An authoritative decision having the force of law.

Or

ditto | A law.

ditto | A (rule of conduct which a community recognises as governing the actions of its members)

ditto | A principle which a community recognises as governing individual conduct.

ditto | A principle which a community (acknowledge by formal approval) as governing individual conduct.


Now, I might be deluding myself, but is the last one close or the same as Black's definition, in which case, I'm happy, if not, I'm still with my problem.

Mark

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:01 pm
by jonboy
As far as I can see, OED definitions are irrelovent, since all "formal" procedures and letters etc. are in legalese and not english, Thats exactly how the deception works.

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:09 pm
by huntingross
I can go with that....but why does that presume we use US legalese.

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:15 pm
by jonboy
Not sure about that, but I am pretty confident that Black's is the bible as far as the system is concerned. Not forgetting that 'The U.S." is owned by the Bank of England anyway ;)

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:09 pm
by Veronica
No. No. No. We do not need to go round the houses. This is what happens all the time because people don't read what is already posted.

You start with 'Society'. It doesn't matter where in the world.. It doesn't matter which Law Dictionary you use.

What is a Society? That's the only question to ask. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25 ... No 13. Is that ... or is that not ... a Society?

Are you AUTOMATICALLY JOINED into a Society BY BIRTH, or do you have to apply for Membership, because you consent/wish/decide to become a Member?

Common Sense is all you need.

Are you a Member of the Law Society? The BMA? The Co-operative Wholesale Society?

Common Sense. Think. Please think.

Can you RESIGN Membership of a Society? Think.

Common Sense is all you need.

All questions are answered by simply thinking about them. Common Sense is all you need. Common Law = Common Sense.

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:48 pm
by Sophia
Greetings Veronica!
I love you so much - bless you for " common sense " it's my mantra .... one little problem is my total not up to dateness with the computer speak .... you and others I note, leave these sweet little 'php etc,...' links but when I click on them I get taken to a fairly blank forum page telling me that this does not exist .... so today, and I've been on the site for the whole day, does consist of me getting several bloody noses as I hit the brick wall at full tilt :)

I so would like to follow your thread but .....

Sophia.

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:09 pm
by kevin
Hi Sophia.

It seems that topic has been deleted...sorry I dont know why :puzz:

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:21 pm
by huntingross
All the thread links prior to the wholesale re-building of the site will be PHUTTTT...the info got cleaned up, filed in a different structure....so it's all still here, just in different addresses.

soooorrrryyyyy

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:47 pm
by Sophia
Ha! what a relief - any idea where that post might have gone ... by the way since we are sort of on a computer topic ... how do you add those smilies ?.. I click on it and words with colons appear ...

Re: Here's my problem

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:41 pm
by huntingross
I'll tell you if you promise not to use them.....

I searched for the topic but cant find it