FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby Farmer » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:58 pm

1. Is the currency in circulation a product of the Bank of England?

2. Is the currency in circulation foreign?

3. Is the Bank of England a foreign jurisdiction?

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jurisdiction_of_the_currency
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby Farmer » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:31 pm

I have had this reply for a couple of weeks and just forgot to post it. Because they are refusing to answer my questions I will do it in another FOI in the future in a different way. A couple of the links do not work.


Dear Mr Smith,

Thank you for your enquiry dated 19 October 2009 asking for information under the Freedom of Information (Fol) Act 2000 (the ‘Act’).

2. You asked:

• is the currency in circulation a product of the Bank of England?
• is the currency in circulation foreign?
• is the Bank of England a foreign jurisdiction?

3. In response to these questions I can inform you that the Bank of England has responsibility for the issuing of all Bank of England banknotes in the UK and the Royal Mint has responsibility for the issuing of all UK circulating coinage. The currency in circulation is neither foreign nor is the Bank of England a foreign jurisdiction. A small number of Scottish and Northern Irish banks have also been granted the legal right to issue banknotes.

4. For background you may wish to look at the Coinage Act 1971 and the Bank Charter Act 1844, as well as, more generally, the Bank of England and Royal Mint websites, the web links to which I have included below for your ease of reference.

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?ActiveTextDocid=1404903
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1844/cukpga_8440032_en_1
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk
http://www.royalmint.com


5. Although you cited the Freedom of Information Act in relation to your enquiries, I need to explain that the Act provides a general right of access to recorded information. Whereas, the enquiry you have made has asked a number of questions, which we have answered above. So as to assist you, should you wish to make an FOI request in future, you may find the following guidance from the Information Commissioner helpful.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/freedom_of_information/practical_application/fop100_how_to_make_a_request_v1.pdf
http://www.ico.qov.uk/upload/documents/library/freedom_of_information/practical_application/its_public_information_foi%20charter_final.pdf


6. If you have any queries about this letter, please contact us at the email account given in the header to this letter. It would help us, if you could remember to quote the IRU reference number (also in the header) in any future communications.

Yours sincerely,

Information Rights Unit
On behalf of HM Treasury
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby Farmer » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:48 pm

Sent the following reply:

Your Ref: IRU9/874

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, the following links did not work. I am also surprised by the amount that you have locked the pdf document you sent so that I needed to type out the complete links instead of just being able to click on them.

The links in question are:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1844/cukpga_8440032_en_1

and

http://www.ico.qov.uk/upload/documents/library/freedom_of_information/practical_application/its_public_information_foi%20charter_final.pdf

Would I be correct in assuming that question 1 which you did not answer "Is the currency in circulation a product of the Bank of England?", can be found in one of the links you provided?

Yours sincerely,

John Smith
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby Farmer » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:52 pm

They have sent the links that were not working.

responses, FOI

8 December 2009


Dear Mr Smith,

I am sorry that you experienced difficulties with two of the links we provided. I have checked that they are correct and so I have reproduced them below in 'clickable' form.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1844/cukpga_18440032_en_1

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/freedom_of_information/practical_application/its_public_information_foi%20charter_final.pdf


In regard to your question one, all the currency in [UK] circulation is not the product of the Bank of England, as was explained in paragraph three of our letter.

With regards,
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby emmanualgoldstein » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:10 pm

Okay I must be blind, paragraphh 3 states:

3. In response to these questions I can inform you that the Bank of England has responsibility for the issuing of all Bank of England banknotes in the UK and the Royal Mint has responsibility for the issuing of all UK circulating coinage. The currency in circulation is neither foreign nor is the Bank of England a foreign jurisdiction. A small number of Scottish and Northern Irish banks have also been granted the legal right to issue banknotes.



now about that bit where they say:
In regard to your question one, all the currency in [UK] circulation is not the product of the Bank of England, as was explained in paragraph three of our letter.


Can anyone help a blind man out here, is there some subtle thing Im missing?
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby Farmer » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:19 pm

I know, what can one say. Seems that certain things are invisible to us.
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby the_common_law_reverend_kenny » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:34 pm

FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency - good question /f nice one.

Although the Banks are the issuers they are not the owners of the product as far as I can tell from that.
:peace:
SOVEREIGN: not controlled by outside forces: autonomous; self-governing; independent "a sovereign people" <> "by any peaceful administritive means necessary" - the way of the order.
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Re: FOI - Jurisdiction of the currency

Postby Farmer » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:58 pm

According to the reply, the Bank of England does not own the notes, or at least it is not their property.

What I want to know is who does. In the thread They Own it All (Including You), The authors of the book state that no one owns anything because there is a hidden lien on Federal Reserve notes. In the thread I give an example of what that means.

What I wish to know is who owns the notes. No doubt in time I will discover this. Below are a few things to think about:

In the Currency and Banknotes Act 1928 (c.13) it states:

4 (4) Any currency notes called in but not cancelled before the appointed day may be exchanged for bank notes of the same value.

13 (3) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,—

The expression “the Bank” means the Bank of England:
The expression “bank note” means a note of the Bank:


So, a currency note called in can be exchanged for a note of the Bank of England. This looks like one form of money is exchanged for another form of money.

In the Bank Charter Act 1844 it states:

1. The issue of promissory notes of the governor and company of the Bank of England, payable on demand, shall be separated and thenceforth kept wholly distinct from the general banking business of the said governor and company; and the business of and relating to such issue shall be thenceforth conducted and carried on by the said governor and company in a separate department, to be called “the Issue Department of the Bank of England,” . . . (F1)

(F1) Words repealed by Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1973 (c. 39), Sch. 1 Pt. IV

Notice how there is a separation between governor and company of the Bank of England.

6. An account of the amount of Bank of England notes issued by the issue department of the Bank of England, and of gold coin and of gold and silver bullion respectively, and of securities, in the said issue department, and also an account of the capital stock, and the deposits, and of the money and securities belonging to the said governor and company in the banking department of the Bank of England, on some day in every week to be fixed by the [(F2)commissioners of inland revenue], shall be transmitted by the said governor and company weekly to the said commissioners, in the form prescribed in the schedule hereto annexed marked (A.), and shall be published by the said commissioners, in the next succeeding London Gazette in which the same may be conveniently inserted.

(F2) Words substituted by virtue of Inland Revenue Regulation Act 1890 (c. 21), s. 37(2)


So here we have the inland revenue getting involved.

In the book the authors make the point that in the US, income tax is not an income tax, but an import/export tariff on the Federal Reserve notes. In other words, each time the note changes hands a commercial import and export transaction has taken place. And as they can decide what has to be paid by virtue of the hidden lien, everyone has to pay the tariff in the form of an income tax (in name only).
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