FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction

FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby Farmer » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:11 am

1. What type of law does parliament have the right to make (civil
law, common law, admiralty law, commercial law etc)?

2. Is there a difference between common law and judicial common law
created by judges?

3. Why does common law not protect British subjects or citizens
from statutes passed by parliament? To help in understanding the
question: common law allows for free and unhindered travel over
public land, yet statutes prevent travelling by car without
permission via a driving license, car insurance, road tax payment,
and DVLA registration.

4. How does parliament achieve jurisdiction over a human being born
in the geographical area otherwise known as Britain thereby being
able to enforce their statutes on that human being without that
human beings consent, having been born free and not being a slave?

5. Is there a difference between a British subject and a British
citizen?

EDIT: forgot the link:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/parliamentary_jurisdiction
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby MikeThomas » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:36 am

Some excellent quetions Farmer! You have a real gift for this :yes:
We are the people our parents told us NOT TO PLAY WITH
User avatar
MikeThomas
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:17 pm
Location: Llanharan, South Wales

Re: Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby elemental mechanic » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:59 am

i know someone will give a wonderfully full and concise answer, it will be filled with opinion driven by passion and truth. what i have to offer is very much the opposite, and yet i feel will encompass the many responses to follow.

Let him who wishes to be deceived, be deceived, yeah, i'll run with that for now.

:peace: is :love:

"namaste"
I KNOW WHERE I'M GOING
I KNOW THE TRUTH
I DON'T HAVE TO BE WHAT YOU WANT ME TO BE
I'M FREE TO BE WHAT I WANT


Muhammad Ali
elemental mechanic
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:43 pm
Location: greater manchester-shire

Re: Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby Farmer » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:10 am

Mike: thank. At least I have an aptitude for something. I certainly don't have one for understanding what's written in the statutes.

EM: I think what they didn't realise when they first made FOI available was that it could be put into a database like we have here or on that website. This allows other FOI requests to be used in ones own as a reference. They have a problem: they cannot lie, only be economical with the information. But having a database allows us to get past that eventually with the right questions.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:42 am

Very pertinent questions Farmer. Rather than attempt to answer them, I humbly suggest that the answers will oranically spring forth from these legal definitions, taken from Bouviers:

LAW, COMMON. The common law is that which derives its force and authority from the universal consent and immemorial practice of the people. It has never received the sanction of the legislature, by an express act, wbich is the criterion by which it is distinguished from the statute law. It has never been reduced to writing; by this expression, however, it is not meant that all those laws are at present merely oral, or communicated from former ages to the present solely by word of mouth, but that the evidence of our common law is contained in our books of Reports, and depends on the general practice and judicial adjudications of our courts.

2. The common law is derived from two sources, the common law of England, and the practice and decision of our own courts. In some states the English common law has been adopted by statute. There is no general rule to ascertain what part of the English common law is valid and binding. To run the line of distinction, is a subject of embarrassment to courts, and the want of it a great perplexity to the student. Kirb. Rep. Pref.


STATUTE. The written will of the legislature, solemnly expressed according to the forms prescribed in the constitution; an act of the legislature.

2. This word is used in contradistinction to the common law. Statutes acquire their force from the time of their passage unless otherwise provided. 7 Wheat. R. 104: 1 Gall . R. 62.

3. It is a general rule that when the provision of a statute is general, everything which is necessary to make such provision effectual is supplied by the common law; Co. Litt. 235; 2 Inst. 222; Bac. Ab. h. t. B; and when a power is given by statute, everything necessary for making it effectual is given by implication: quando le aliquid concedit, concedere videtur et id pe quod devenitur ad aliud. 12 Co. 130, 131 2 Inst. 306.

4. Statutes are of several kinds; namely, Public or private. 1. Public statutes are those of which the judges will take notice without pleading; as, those which concern all officers in general; acts concerning trade in general or any specific trade; acts concerning all persons generally. 2. Private acts, are those of which the judges wiil not take notice without pleading; such as concern only a particular species, or person; as, acts relating to any particular place, or to several particular places, or to one or several particular counties. Private statutes may be rendered public by being so declared by the legislature. Bac. Ab. h. t. F; 1 Bl. Com. 85. Declaratory or remedial. 1. A declaratory statute is one which is passed in order to put an end to a doubt as to what the common law is, and which declares what it is, and has ever been. 2. Remedial statutes are those which are made to supply such defects, and abridge such superfluities in the common law as may have been discovered. 1 Bl. Com. 86. These remedial statutes are themselves divided into enlarging statutes, by which the common law is made more comprehensive and extended than it was before; and into restraining statutes, by which it is narrowed down to that which is just and proper. The term remedial statute is also applied to those acts which give the party injured a remedy, and in some respects those statutes are penal. Esp. Pen. Act. 1.

6. Temporary or perpetual. 1. A temporary statute is one which is limited in its duration at the time of its enactment. It continues in force until the time of its limitation has expired, unless sooner repealed. 2. A perpetual statute is one for the continuance of which there is no limited time, although it be not expressly declared to be so. If, however, a statute which did not itself contain any limitation, is to be governed by another which is temporary only, the former will also be temporary and dependent upon the existence of the latter. Bac. Ab. h. t. D.

7. Affirmative or negative. 1. An affirmative statute is one which is enacted in affirmative terms; such a statute does not take away the common law. If, for example, a statute without negative words, declares that when certain requisites shall have been complied with, deeds shall, have in evidence a certain effect, this does not prevent their being used in evidence, though the requisites have not been complied with, in the same manner as they might have been before the statute was passed. 2 Cain. R. 169. 2. A negative statute is one expressed in negative terms, and so controls the common law, that it has no force in opposition to the statute. Bro. Parl. pl. 72; Bac. Ab. h. t. G.

8. Penal statutes are those which order or prohibit a thing under a certain penalty. Esp. Pen. Actions, 5 Bac. Ab. h. t. I, 9. Vide, generally, Bac. Ab. h. t.; Com. Dig. Parliament; Vin. Ab. h. t.; Dane's Ab. Index, h. t.; Chit. Pr. Index, h. t.; 1 Kent, Com. 447-459; Barrington on the Statutes, Boscaw. on Pen. Stat.; Esp. on Penal Actions and Statutes.

9. Among the civilians, the term statute is generally applied to all sorts of laws and regulations; every provision of law which ordains, permits, or prohibits anything is a statute without considering from what source it arises. Sometimes the word is used in contradistinction to the imperial Roman law, which, by way of eminence, civilians call the common law. They divide statutes into three classes, personal, real and mixed.

10. Personal statutes are those which have principally for their object the person, and treat of property only incidentally; such are those which regard birth, legitimacy, freedom, the fight of instituting suits, majority as to age, incapacity to contract, to make a will, to plead in person, and the like. A personal statute is universal in its operation, and in force everywhere.

11. Real statutes are those which have principally for their object, property, and which do not speak of persons, except in relation to property; such are those which concern the disposition, which one may make of his property either alive or by testament. A real statute, unlike a personal one, is confined in its operation to the country of its origin.

12. Mixed statutes are those which concern at once both persons and property. But in this sense almost all statutes are mixed, there being scarcely any law relative to persons, which does not at the same time relate to things. Vide Merl. Repert. mot Statut; Poth. Cout. d'Orleans, ch. 1; 17 Martin's Rep. 569-589; Story's Confl. of Laws, 12, et seq.; Bouv. Inst. Index, h. t.


JURISDICTION, Practice. A power constitutionally conferred upon a judge or magistrate, to take cognizance of, and decide causes according to law, and to carry his sentence into execution. 6 Pet. 591; 9 John. 239. The tract of land or district within which a judge or magistrate has jurisdiction, is called his territory, and his power in relation to his territory is called his territorial jurisdiction.

2. Every act of jurisdiction exercised by a judge without his territory, either by pronouncing sentence or carrying it into execution, is null. An inferior court has no jurisdiction beyond what is expressly delegated. 1 Salk. 404, n.; Gilb. C. P. 188; 1 Saund. 73; 2 Lord Raym. 1311; and see Bac. Ab. Courts, &c., C, et seq; Bac. Ab. Pleas, E 2.

3. Jurisdiction is original, when it is conferred on the court in the first instance, which is called original jurisdiction; (q. v.) or it is appellate, which is when an appeal is given from the judgment of another court. Jurisdiction is also civil, where the subject-matter to be tried is not of a criminal nature; or criminal, where the court is to punish crimes. Some courts and magistrates have both civil and criminal jurisdiction. Jurisdiction is also concurrent, exclusive, or assistant. Concurrent jurisdiction is that which may be entertained by several courts. It is a rule that in cases of concurrent jurisdictions, that which is first seized of the case shall try it to the exclusion of the other. Exclusive jurisdiction is that which has alone the power to try or determine the Suit, action, or matter in dispute. assistant jurisdiction is that which is afforded by a court of chancery, in aid of a court of law; as, for example, by a bill of discovery, by the examination of witnesses de bene esse, or out of the jurisdiction of the court; by the perpetuation of the testimony of witnesses, and the like.

4. It is the law which gives jurisdiction; the consent of, parties, cannot, therefore, confer it, in a matter which the law excludes. 1 N. & M. 192; 3 M'Cord, 280; 1 Call. 55; 1 J. S. Marsh. 476; 1 Bibb, 263; Cooke, 27; Minor, 65; 3 Litt. 332; 6 Litt. 303; Kirby, 111; 1 Breese, 32; 2 Yerg. 441; 1 Const. R. 478. But where the court has jurisdiction of the matter, and the defendant has some privilege which exempts him from the jurisdiction, he may wave the privilege. 5 Cranch, 288; 1 Pet. 449; 8 Wheat. 699; 4 W. C. C. R. 84; 4 M'Cord, 79; 4 Mass. 593; Wright, 484. See Hardin, 448; 2 Wash. 213.

5. Courts of inferior jurisdiction must act within their jurisdiction, and so it must appear upon the record. 5 Cranch, 172 Pet. C. C. R. 36; 4 Dall. 11; 2 Mass. 213; 4 Mass. 122; 8 Mass. 86; 11 Mass. 513; Pr. Dec. 380; 2 Verm. 329; 3 Verm. 114; 10 Conn. 514; 4 John. 292; 3 Yerg. 355; Walker, 75; 9 Cowen, 227; 5 Har. & John. 36; 1 Bailey, 459; 2 Bailey, 267. But the legislature may, by a general or special law, provide otherwise. Pet. C. C. R. 36. Vide 1 Salk. 414; Bac. Ab. Courts, &c., C. D; Id. Prerogative, E 6; Merlin, Rep. h. t.; Ayl. Pat. 317, and the art. Competency. As to the force of municipal law beyond the territorial jurisdiction of the state, see Wheat. Intern. Law, part a, c. 2, 7, et seq.; Story, Confl. of Laws, c. 2; Huberus, lib. 1, t. 3; 13 Mass. R. 4 Pard. Dr. Com. part. 6, t. 7, c. 2, 1; and the articles Conflict of Laws; Courts of the United States. See generally, Bouv. Inst. Index, h. t.

JURISDICTION CLAUSE. That part of a bill in chancery which is intended to give jurisdiction of the suit to, the court, by a general averment that the acts complained of are contrary to equity, and tend to the injury of the plaintiff, and that. he has no remedy, or not a complete remedy, without the assistance of a court of equity, is called the jurisdiction clause. Mitf. Eq. Pl. by Jeremy, 43


PARLIAMENT. This word, derived from the French parlement, in the English law, is used to designate the legislative branch of the government of Great Britain, composed of the house of lords, and the house of commons.

2. It is an error to regard the king of Great Britain as forming a part of parliament. The connexion between the king and the Iords spiritual, the lords temporal, and the commons, which, when assembled in parliament, form the three states of the realm, is the same as that which subsists between the king and those states - the people at large - out of parliament; Colton's Records, 710; the king not being, in either case, a member, branch, or coestate, but standing solely in the relation of sovereign or head. Rot. Par. vol. iii,. 623 a.; 2 Mann. & Gr. 457 n.


GOVERNMENT, natural and political law. The manner in which sovereignty is exercised in each state.

2. There are three simple forms of government, the democratic, the aristocratic, and monarchical. But these three simple forms may be varied to infinity by the mixture and divisions of their different powers. Sometimes by the word government is understood the body of men, or the individual in the state, to whom is entrusted the executive power. It is taken in this sense when the government is spoken of in opposition to other bodies in the state.

3. Governments are also divided into monarchical and republican; among the monarchical states may be classed empires, kingdoms, and others; in these the sovereignty resides in, a single individual. There are some monarchical states under the name of duchies, counties, and the like. Republican states are those where the sovereignty is in several persons. These are subdivided into aristocracies, where the power is exercised by a few persons of the first rank in the state; and democracies, which are those governments where the common people may exercise the highest powers. 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 20. See Aristocracy; Democracy; Despotism; Monarchy; Theocracy.

4. It should be remembered, however, that governments, for the most part, have not been framed on models. Their parts and their powers grew out of occasional acts, prompted by some urgent expediency, or some private interest, which, in the course of time, coalesced and hardened into usages. These usages became the object of respect and the guide of conduct long before they were embodied in written laws. This subject is philosophically treated by Sir James McIntosh, in his History of England. See vol. 1, p. 71, et seq.


SUBJECT, contracts. The thing which is the object of an agreement. This term is used in the laws of Scotland.

SUBJECT, persons, government. An individual member of a nation, who is subject to the laws; this term is used in contradistiction to citizen, which is applied to the same individual when considering his political rights.

2. In monarchical governments, by subject is meant one who owes permanent allegiance to the monarch. Vide Body politic; Greenl. Ev. 286; Phil. & Am. on Ev. 732, n. 1.


CITIZEN, persons. One who, under the constitution and laws of the United States, has a right to vote for representatives in congress, and other public officers, and who is qualified to fill offices in the gift of the people. In a more extended sense, under the word citizen, are included all white persons born in the United States, and naturalized persons born out of the same, who have not lost their right as such. This includes men, women, and children.

2. Citizens are either native born or naturalized. Native citizens may fill any office; naturalized citizens may be elected or appointed to any office under the constitution of the United States, except the office of president and vice-president. The constitution provides, that " the citizens of each state shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states." Art. 4, s. 2.

4. A citizen of the United States, residing in any state of the Union, is a citizen of that state. 6 Pet. 761 Paine, 594;1 Brock. 391; 1 Paige, 183 Metc. & Perk. Dig. h. t.; vide 3 Story's Const. 1687 Bouv. Inst. Index, b. t.; 2 Kent, Com. 258; 4 Johns. Ch. R. 430; Vatt. B. 1, c. Id, 212; Poth. Des Personnes, tit. 2, s. 1. Vide Body Politic; Inhabitant

Peace
Nothing, except the truth, is like it seems to be.

All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
User avatar
The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:38 am

Re: Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby elemental mechanic » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:06 am

Farmer wrote:Mike: thank. At least I have an aptitude for something. I certainly don't have one for understanding what's written in the statutes.

EM: I think what they didn't realise when they first made FOI available was that it could be put into a database like we have here or on that website. This allows other FOI requests to be used in ones own as a reference. They have a problem: they cannot lie, only be economical with the information. But having a database allows us to get past that eventually with the right questions.


how true, i only wish the balance of truth would fully tip in our favour RIGHT NOW! TODAY AGHHHHHHH,...:blush: .i'm sorry, feeling impatient today, i note that somewhere between going to sleep last night and waking up this morning i am forgetting to enjoy the ride.

perhaps i could print up some maxims and place them on car windscreens:
"The law is not to be violated by those in government"
or
" The government is to be subject to the law, for the law makes government"
may not achieve much but it would have a great therapeutic aspect alleviating some of the frustration.


:peace: is love

"namaste:
I KNOW WHERE I'M GOING
I KNOW THE TRUTH
I DON'T HAVE TO BE WHAT YOU WANT ME TO BE
I'M FREE TO BE WHAT I WANT


Muhammad Ali
elemental mechanic
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:43 pm
Location: greater manchester-shire

Re: FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby Farmer » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:36 am

Thank you Michael for the information. It brings up some interesting points that I need to write down and post.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby Farmer » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:47 am

The request is now overdue, so I sent the following:

John Smith

7 November 2009

Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to bring to your attention that a freedom of information request must be dealt with the legally specified period unless a legal reason has been given for a delay. I hope this matter will be dealt with promptly now.

Yours sincerely,

John Smith
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby Farmer » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:27 pm

A prompt reply back stating that it is not a proper request, so will need to structure the questions differently in future:

Data Access & Compliance Unit
Ministry of Justice

9 November 2009


Thanks John, This is not a FOI request as you are not requesting recorded information but are asking questions.

I will forward to our Policy area who will respond to the questions you have raised.

Regards

Data Access and Compliance Unit
6TH floor 102 Petty France.
Post point 6.25
London
SW1H 9AJ
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
- prajna - fmotl.co.uk forum 2011
User avatar
Farmer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07 am

Re: FOI - Parliamentary Jurisdiction

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:37 pm

Farmer wrote:Thanks John, This is not a FOI request as you are not requesting recorded information but are asking questions.


Ah! - the old 'ace-in-the-hole' - do ya see it? We can only request RECORDED information - what if this stuff is given verbally when ones predecessor leaves the office and you take over?

I wouldn't trust this bunch one inch, ever. In fact, I have a note on my desk to that effect.

Bloody good effort, Farmer - I admire your mind as much as your persistence.
They must find it hard to take Truth for authority who have so long mistaken Authority for Truth - Gerald Massey
User avatar
BaldBeardyDude
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:42 am
Location: Telford, Shropshire

Next

Return to Freedom of Information only

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests