Apparently there are some people out there ...

Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby huntingross » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:03 pm

Ooooooohhh that would be good....totally co-ordinated....every one sending the same thing on the same date....no chance to drive a knife between them.....ah dare to dream.
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby ArturoDekko » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:14 pm

Hands up everyone who wants to turn that dream into a reality?

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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby ArturoDekko » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:42 pm

Received the following from gepisar as a pm, hope he does not mind me putting it on the thread. I am working on the last stages of a possession order and time is crucial so I can not give this the attention it deserves, so I put it hear for others to join in. So far, there is a thread around, there has not been too much success with the Treasury, it may be early days yet. Remember, we are at the forefront of this technology. You might also want to have a look at/revive this thread: http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1795&start=10

I have spent 3 months learning about this and it seems a very confused arena. Im no expert, but if this communication carries things forwards, then thats good for us all.

So, heres what I've come to understand:

1. Your pre-pay account (birth bond) does not exist. You have to create it.

2. Under bankruptcy he who creates liability, must bring the remedy. (OR ELSE)

3. For every credit, there's a debit and vice-versa.

I have no doubt that A4V "works".

Lets try this for starters.

A while back, I joked with a friend: "If the Treasury, in 'collusion' with the Bank of England creates currency (fiat or otherwise) why dont I tell them to send it direct to HMRC who collect it through taxes and levies, and cut out me, the middleman?" (The answer is CONTROL but thats another long story)

Sometime later, I realised that this is what A4V is.

However, the mechanics or A4v need explicating to show this.

From no 3 above: using GAPP (double entry book keeping) all balance sheets must show zero. So, when you send your A4V notice to Treasury, they need to know several things:

a) What you want them to do with it

b) What account they should use to balance (SET-OFF) their books.

If they simply accepted the bill, their accounts would show only one-side of the story and an imbalance. They need to balance their accounts. So you need to tell them that the account they can use to OFFSET(!!!) their balance is the one bearing your designated number.

What account is that?

Well, its the one you set up beforehand, the one you created AT the treasury, the one with the number you specified (perhaps your NI Number?)

How was this done?

Well, you got hold of your birth-certificate, accepted that for value, and deposited THAT with a covering letter into the Treasury. The covering letter detailed the unspecified value in the account, and that the surety would be the accepted birth certificate. The covering note will tell them to use this account to SETOFF their accounts when you instruct them to do so with your future "A4V" notices.

There are now two issues to resolve.

1. I could write "A4V" on my bills and quote YOUR account number. You wouldn't know that I did this with YOUR account, and you couldn't stop me, and NI numbers are hardly secret. This is very unsecure.

2. You have created an account with what amounts to a blank cheque - massive liability.

These two issues need resolving immediately. How>?

1. You can use any number to create the account. Ive been to a few "Wealth Seminars" who say that this stuff is possible and will tell me for a fee, a HUGE fee exactly how to do it. I never paid and I dont trust them, but someone on stage always makes a big deal about their RED THUMB! The Treasury has to have someway of knowing that YOU are instructing them to offset their accounts with YOURS! (Ever heard of red thumbs?!)

2. You protect YOUR account by putting a lien on it. That is, you need to make a claim against the account so large, that small claims wont get at it. So, for example, by putting a claim against "your" account of 500 million, if anyone sues you (say for 20grand), it goes in the queue. "Your" 500 million has to come out first before the next claimant will get their 20grand.

From what I know there are several ways of structuring this:

YOU act as creditor to your STRAWMAN who in turn holds the TRUST on the Treasury account.

YOU act as BOTH creditor (to yourself) and debtor.

And a hybrid...

The impact of what you want to achieve will dictate which method you use. This is tied to you NOUICOR since, if you abandoned your strawman, option 1 is not viable, which leaves you with option 2, where YOU, the real human becomes directly commercially obligated which is somewhat against Freeman philosophy. A catch 22!

Option 1 = STRAWMAN route, Option 2=commercial route.

I suppose if you've abandoned your strawman, you simply dont acknowledge such obligations of the Strawman, but I think caution should be advised here since, in most cases, ignorantly or otherwise, "we" asked for Southern Electric to supply us electricity. "We cant just simply turn around and say ah, I ordered that, but youre billing my strawman". Anyway, lets go on with A4v.

So, how do you create the lien, yup thats the UCC Financing Statement.

Now, you're set up to do Av4. (You can of course Bond the Treasury account and use that as security for other purposes...Self Insuring/Court Protection etc...but thats another story)

I will suggest, that this is why some people report success, others failure:

a) If someone has NOT set up the A4V account, and they send the bill back, the the admin (at the gas company for example) goes crazy, and 4 months later we haven't had a letter and assume it works.

b) Again, If someone has NOT set up the A4V account and the gas company, (for example) then send the bill to the Treasury, it may get lost in admin for months!

c) Without setting up the Treasury b/c account, you may be committing fraud!

d) Its not unheard of for rich, ultra-high net worth individuals to co-incidentally be using these account numbers, and by pure CHANCE, someone else may be using that account number and a bill of 120 quid for gas may well be accepted as the time and effort for them to investigate such a small item appearing on THEIR account would not be worth-while.

e) Some people HAVE set up their account and assume you have, and tell you to write "Accepted for Value" failing to mention that, assuming youre at a certain stage.

When we get a council tax bill, it comes with a cheque.

Assuming we have a so called b/c account at Treasury:

We should write "Accepted for value" as you describe on the front and endorse the BACK of the cheque. (The tear off coupon) This does two things:

1. Provide Treasury instructions to setoff their account with yours.

2. Your signature creates CURRENCY! This creates another accounting imbalance. This is where my knowledge is limited but heres my guess:

Treasury deposits your cheque (your signature) for value. They then create a matching cheque and return it to you. THEN you should endorse that cheque and send it back to the council so they can finally balance THEIR books.

Id really appreciate your feedback on this.
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby Ian:Robb-Forgie » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:49 pm

Ignorance of the Law is no excuse! They have law degrees it’s their words

“13. The city of London shall enjoy all its ancient liberties and free customs, both by land and by water. We also will and grant that all other cities, boroughs, towns, and ports shall enjoy all their liberties and free customs.” Magna Carta http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/magna2.html
The Declaration of Independence was written in English, if you want you can download a copy
http://archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_zoom_2.html
The Lateran Pacts of 1929
http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/treaty.htm
“Statutes are confined to their own territory and have no extraterritorial effect.” 1759 (BL.LAW DICT.8thED)

The City of London is not apart of the Nation of England
The city of Washington is not a part of the Republic of the United States
Vatican City is not a part of Italy.
The Tri-City State (the Emerald city where all the streets are paved with gold. The Magic Kingdom)
Democracy is Mob Rule!
Everything is based on Biblical teachings

1Ti 1:9 “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Exo 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:”

“Law is the safest helmet; under the shield of law no one is deceived.”; 1730(BL.LAW DICT.,8th ED.);and that
Eph 6:13 “Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”
Eph 6:14 “Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;”
Eph 6:15 “And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;”
Eph 6:16 “Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.”
Eph 6:17 “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:”
1Th 5:8 “But let us, who are of the day, be sober putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.”
Deu 19:15 “One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matte be established.”
Mat 18:16 “But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”
2Co 13:1 “This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
“The law blushes when children correct their parents.” 1716 (BL.LAW DICT.8th ED.)
“If the better are those whom love leads, the greater number are those whom fear corrects.” 1758 (BL.LAW DICT.8thED)
Jer 6:16 “Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.” Thomas and Nelson Authorised King James Bible

The King James Bible was tranʃlated into Engliʃh by King James who tranʃlated it into Law?
In Engliʃh freedom from ʃlavery
truth and freedom carry the croʃs


I am not a Child, I am a man, a living ʃoul, ʃtanding in the Kingdom of God, {יְהוָ֨ה}who operates with full responsibility and I do not see the need to ask permiʃsion to engage in lawful and peaceful activities, especially from those who claim limited liability, and; Therefore be it now known to any and all interested, concerned or affected parties, that I, ee – uh n; R AH –b uh, f oh r g ee Ian: Robb-Forgie, agent for FORGIE, IAN ROBB, SECURED PARTY/CORPRATE FICTION am a man, a living ʃoul, ʃtanding in the Kingdom of God, {יְהוָ֨ה} and do hereby ʃerve notice and ʃtate clearly ʃpecifically and unequivocally my intent to peacefully and lawfully exist free of all ʃtatutory obligations, restrictions and that I maintain all rights at law to trade, exchange or barter and exist without deceptive governance and to do so without limitations, restrictions or regulations created by others and without my conʃent, and;
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby Ian:Robb-Forgie » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:35 pm

Notice of correction!



“is” is “as” writ in the King James 1611 Holy Bible.


NOTICE: The principle of “sic” applies to this ““is” is “as” writ in the King James 1611 Holy Bible” , insofar as the language expressed herein, and all words and phrases combined herein, conform to the Doctrine of Common Usage, and not to the time-honoured Rules of the English Language. No fraudulent conveyance of language is implied, intended, acknowledged or admitted.
Freedom (frē′dəm)
"Exemption or release from slavery or imprisonment" (lit. & fig.)
THE NEW SHORTER OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY, Lesley Brown Oxford University Press 1993.
"The state or condition of being free"
World Book Dictionary, World Book Inc. 233 North Michigan Avenue Chicago IL USA 1984.
“the power or right to act, speak, or think freely. The state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint. He won his freedom after a retrial.”
The Random House Dictionary of the English Language second edition unabridged STUART BERG FLRXNER editor and Chief LEONORE CRARY HAUCK MANAGING EDITOR RANDOM HOUSE NEW YORK
“The quality or state of being free: a: the quality or state of not being coerced or constrained by fate, necesisity or circumstances in one’s choices or actions<the philosophical implications of the play theory are found in its opposition of-and necessity. of spontancity and order John Dewey>”
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged Philip Babcock Gove, Ph.D. and the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff Springfield, Massachusetts, U.S.A. 1993
“1: the quality or state of being free: as a: the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE c: the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d: EASE, FACILITY <spoke the language with freedom> e: the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f: improper familiarity g: boldness of conception or execution h: unrestricted use <gave h the freedom of their home>”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/ MERRIAM-WEBSTER ONLINE (www.Merriam-Webster.com) copyright © 2009 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated.
"The state of being free or liberated"
Black’s Law Dictionary, Eight Edition, Bryan A. Garner (West Group, 2004).
“The state of being free; liberty; self-determination; absence of restraint ; the opposite of slavery. The power of acting, in the character of a moral personality, according to the dictates of the will, without other check, hindrance, or prohibition than such as may be imposed by just and necessary laws and the duties of social life. The prevalence, in the government and constitution of a country, of such a system of laws and institutions as secure civil liberty to the individual citizen.”
Black’s Law Dictionary, Second Edition, HENRY CAMPBELL BLACK, M.A.
ST. PAUL, MINN. WEST PUBLISHING CO. 1910
Liberty; the right to do what is not forbidden by law. Freedom does not preclude the idea of subjection to law; indeed, it presupposes the existence of some legislative provision, the observance of which insures freedom to us, by securing the like observance from others. 2 Har. Cond. L. R. 208.
Bouvier’s Law Dictionary SIXTH EDITION John Bouvier PHILADELPHIA CHILDS & PETERSON, 124 ARCH STREET 1856
“1. Being free, e.g.: a the absence of necessity or constraint in choice or action. b liberation from slavery, bondage, imprisonment, or restraint.
Editorial note
Freedom is a state of liberty, guaranteed by the law to the extent that it bestows personal freedoms (of thought, speech, assembly etc) on the individual and protects physical freedom from assault by others or by agents of the state. Freedom of the individual exists within society when the only restraints serve to prevent harm to other individuals- Geoffery Robertson”
The PENGUIN COMPLETE ENGLISH DICTIONARY Robert Allen Editor, 80 Strand ,London 2006
1. “the state or quality of being free; esp.,
a. exemption or liberation from the control of some other person or some arbitrary power; liberty; independence
b. exemption from arbitrary restrictions on a specified civil right; civil or political liberty freedom of speech
c. exemption or immunity from a specified obligation, discomfort, etc. freedom from want
d. exemption or release from imprisonment
e. a being able to act, move, use, etc. without hindrance or restraint to have the freedom of the house
f. a being able of itself to choose or determine action freely freedom of the will
g. ease of movement or performance; facility
h. a being free from the usual rules, patterns, etc.
i. frankness or easiness of manner; sometimes, an excessive frankness or familiarity”
http://www.yourdictionary.com
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc
a. Exemption or release from slavery or imprisonment; personal liberty. + letter of freedom: a document emancipating a slave.
C1230 Hali Meid 5 Nis ha penne sariliche. .akast & in to pewdom idrahen, pat fram se muchel hehscipe & se seli freedom schal lahe in to monnes pewdom. 1382 Wyclif Deut.XV. 13 And whom with freedam thow 3yuest, thou shat not suffer to goon awey voyd. 1596 SPENCER F.Q. Untill his owne true love his freedome grained. 1613 PURCHAS Pligimage (1614) 295 They will write any thing for monie, as letters of freedome for servants to runne away from their Masters. 1659 D. COWPER Charity 172 Niether age nor force Can quell the love of freedom in a hourse. 1880 E. KIRKE Garfield 38 Face to face with the alarming truth that we must lose our own freedom or grant it to the slave.
b. fig. Liberation from the bondage of sin.
c. 1050 Byrthferh’s Handboc in Anglia (1885) VIII. 320 Wilnigenge mid pissum peowdome, cumin to ecum fredome. 1340 Ayenb. 86 pe oper uridom is pe ilke pet habbep of dyeule. 1526 Pilgr. Perf.(W. De W. 1531) 4b, From the thraldom of the princes of the world to the fredome of glory &kyngdome of god.
THE OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY SECOND EDITION Volume VI Prepared by J.A. SIMPSON and E.S.C WEINER CLARENDON PRESS. OXFORD Oxford University Press198
See Liberty-"Primarily, the state of those who are not slaves"
The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, Abingdon Press, Nashville, Tennessee, U.S.A. 1962

Claim(s); and/or Counterclaim(s) shall be allocutions; being confeʃsions; of all firʃthand knowledge of the facts before the court; under full commercial labiality; and the penalty of perjury; and read as writ to the Judge; and de jure confirmed by: autograph.
Claimant [or claimant’s agent] sui juris
A Man, a Living Soul, who may answer to the call:
ee – uh n; R AH –b uh, f oh r g ee
Ian: Robb-Forgie
Author, Agent, Attorney in Fact, With the Autograph for ,
FORGIE, IAN ROBB, SECURED PARTY/CORPRATE FICTION
All Rights Reserved, including any and all alphabetical
or numerical derivations thereof, at a place known as
Vancouver,
British Columbia,
Non Domestic without United States.
WITHOUT PREJUDICE UCC 1-308
Accepted for value Front/ And/ Or/ To/ Back
Authorised King James Bible
Autograph reference number
RW 336 174 908 CA,
dejure autograph,
Reference file number for
The Canadian Freeman On The Land Society Bible
RW 232 342 775 CA
Employer Number
62 3881752
Private Bond for Set Off Number

RW 150 706 195 CA

Just have to put a dollar stamp then write on an angle accept for value dejure autographed by Ian of the Robb Forgie families then autograph the stamp :clap:





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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby ArturoDekko » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:16 am

I have spent 3 months learning about this and it seems a very confused arena. Im no expert, but if this communication carries things forwards, then thats good for us all.

So, heres what I've come to understand:

1. Your pre-pay account (birth bond) does not exist. You have to create it.

2. Under bankruptcy he who creates liability, must bring the remedy. (OR ELSE)

3. For every credit, there's a debit and vice-versa.

I have no doubt that A4V "works".

Lets try this for starters.

A while back, I joked with a friend: "If the Treasury, in 'collusion' with the Bank of England creates currency (fiat or otherwise) why dont I tell them to send it direct to HMRC who collect it through taxes and levies, and cut out me, the middleman?" (The answer is CONTROL but thats another long story)

Sometime later, I realised that this is what A4V is.

However, the mechanics or A4v need explicating to show this.

From no 3 above: using GAPP (double entry book keeping) all balance sheets must show zero. So, when you send your A4V notice to Treasury, they need to know several things:

a) What you want them to do with it

b) What account they should use to balance (SET-OFF) their books.

If they simply accepted the bill, their accounts would show only one-side of the story and an imbalance. They need to balance their accounts. So you need to tell them that the account they can use to OFFSET(!!!) their balance is the one bearing your designated number.

What account is that?

Well, its the one you set up beforehand, the one you created AT the treasury, the one with the number you specified (perhaps your NI Number?)

How was this done?

Well, you got hold of your birth-certificate, accepted that for value, and deposited THAT with a covering letter into the Treasury. The covering letter detailed the unspecified value in the account, and that the surety would be the accepted birth certificate. The covering note will tell them to use this account to SETOFF their accounts when you instruct them to do so with your future "A4V" notices.

There are now two issues to resolve.

1. I could write "A4V" on my bills and quote YOUR account number. You wouldn't know that I did this with YOUR account, and you couldn't stop me, and NI numbers are hardly secret. This is very unsecure.

2. You have created an account with what amounts to a blank cheque - massive liability.

These two issues need resolving immediately. How>?

1. You can use any number to create the account. Ive been to a few "Wealth Seminars" who say that this stuff is possible and will tell me for a fee, a HUGE fee exactly how to do it. I never paid and I dont trust them, but someone on stage always makes a big deal about their RED THUMB! The Treasury has to have someway of knowing that YOU are instructing them to offset their accounts with YOURS! (Ever heard of red thumbs?!)

2. You protect YOUR account by putting a lien on it. That is, you need to make a claim against the account so large, that small claims wont get at it. So, for example, by putting a claim against "your" account of 500 million, if anyone sues you (say for 20grand), it goes in the queue. "Your" 500 million has to come out first before the next claimant will get their 20grand.

From what I know there are several ways of structuring this:

YOU act as creditor to your STRAWMAN who in turn holds the TRUST on the Treasury account.

YOU act as BOTH creditor (to yourself) and debtor.

And a hybrid...

The impact of what you want to achieve will dictate which method you use. This is tied to you NOUICOR since, if you abandoned your strawman, option 1 is not viable, which leaves you with option 2, where YOU, the real human becomes directly commercially obligated which is somewhat against Freeman philosophy. A catch 22!

Option 1 = STRAWMAN route, Option 2=commercial route.

I suppose if you've abandoned your strawman, you simply dont acknowledge such obligations of the Strawman, but I think caution should be advised here since, in most cases, ignorantly or otherwise, "we" asked for Southern Electric to supply us electricity. "We cant just simply turn around and say ah, I ordered that, but youre billing my strawman". Anyway, lets go on with A4v.

So, how do you create the lien, yup thats the UCC Financing Statement.

Now, you're set up to do Av4. (You can of course Bond the Treasury account and use that as security for other purposes...Self Insuring/Court Protection etc...but thats another story)

I will suggest, that this is why some people report success, others failure:

a) If someone has NOT set up the A4V account, and they send the bill back, the the admin (at the gas company for example) goes crazy, and 4 months later we haven't had a letter and assume it works.

b) Again, If someone has NOT set up the A4V account and the gas company, (for example) then send the bill to the Treasury, it may get lost in admin for months!

c) Without setting up the Treasury b/c account, you may be committing fraud!

d) Its not unheard of for rich, ultra-high net worth individuals to co-incidentally be using these account numbers, and by pure CHANCE, someone else may be using that account number and a bill of 120 quid for gas may well be accepted as the time and effort for them to investigate such a small item appearing on THEIR account would not be worth-while.

e) Some people HAVE set up their account and assume you have, and tell you to write "Accepted for Value" failing to mention that, assuming youre at a certain stage.

When we get a council tax bill, it comes with a cheque.

Assuming we have a so called b/c account at Treasury:

We should write "Accepted for value" as you describe on the front and endorse the BACK of the cheque. (The tear off coupon) This does two things:

1. Provide Treasury instructions to setoff their account with yours.

2. Your signature creates CURRENCY! This creates another accounting imbalance. This is where my knowledge is limited but heres my guess:

Treasury deposits your cheque (your signature) for value. They then create a matching cheque and return it to you. THEN you should endorse that cheque and send it back to the council so they can finally balance THEIR books.

Id really appreciate your feedback on this.
Poor is the man whose pleasures depend upon the permission of another.
gepisar


This is not an area where I have been concentrating so cannot validate much of what you say.
1. Your pre-pay account (birth bond) does not exist. You have to create it.

I thought it did exist, we just do not know what number they use on the account.
So, how do you create the lien, yup thats the UCC Financing Statement.

Personally, I would not use UCC or any commercial redemption stuff. You could create the Lien with a series of notices and affidavits. At least with the Affidavit process, if the do not cough up, you can bash them in high court.
Hope someone else can jump in and be more help.
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby barefoot » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:09 am

No disrspect but I feel that unless someone give clear accurate and sufficient information on exactly how this is done then it is pointless getting half the story!
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby barefoot » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:20 am

I thought Veronica explained it fairly well at the beginning of this post!


I would say only understand what is necessary. If I give money to get from peter to paul and I know that peter has to travel through the city to reach paul then does it matter if I know the specifics of it. I may know he takes a bus but does one need to know every little nuance of what he did on the way there or the exact route taken? Not sure if this is a helpful analogy but I think the mind can over complicate things. It does this by constantly asking questions.
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:37 am

Well, it is obvious that this knowledge if it exists, would be well guraded and shielded with multi-levels bullshit.

Me, I think that the birht bond is a crock. What I think happens is this:

1 Birth & Regsitration
2. Registrar sends off his details of births, deaths, marriages at months end.
3. Bods in Government then use this data to sort out their details.
4.BIRTHS recorded have a TRUST in the NAME of the born PERSON. I am supposing that the following occurs..
a) Governement sets up a trust as GRANTOR with nothing in it. They nominate:
b)TRUSTEE - the PERSON born (the TRUSTEE is legally responsible for the running of the trust.)
c)BENEFICIARY - again, the PERSON born.
So, we can see that we are the BENEFICIARIES, so any EARNINGS go to US, but as it is paid THROUGH a trust, we pay tax on any income. If the TRUST incurs debts, then as the TRUSTEE it is the responsible party who must deal with said debts/liabilities. That's us.

This would seem to fit all the loopholes and laws we have seen so far. It is the way I deal with the PERSON and any monies/debts that my PERSON has dealt with.

The Rev Kenny (as Consumerpada) has done some excellent study and work on trusts, albeit common law ones. I think this subject is deserving of more work, so we can either confirm or deny the existence of trusts for us all.

So, would this work with A4V? - if the process were better understood, yes - it very well may.
They must find it hard to take Truth for authority who have so long mistaken Authority for Truth - Gerald Massey
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Re: Apparently there are some people out there ...

Postby gepisar » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:01 pm

barefoot wrote:I thought Veronica explained it fairly well at the beginning of this post!


I would say only understand what is necessary. If I give money to get from peter to paul and I know that peter has to travel through the city to reach paul then does it matter if I know the specifics of it. I may know he takes a bus but does one need to know every little nuance of what he did on the way there or the exact route taken? Not sure if this is a helpful analogy but I think the mind can over complicate things. It does this by constantly asking questions.

I disagree! If I knew he took the bus and I was driving that way, i could give him a lift! He might feel better about being robbed! (Rob peter to pay paul?) ;-) Knowing the nuance allows us to discover a critical path, and what to do and where to go when things go wrong. Suppose the bus breaks down...and Paul is desperate...i might know a mechanic in the area. Your net worth is your net-work.

Anyway, there is a lot of good info out there, and a lot of mis info. The postings quoted from me above, were originally something I sent in a PM. I didnt want to add to the mis-information by posting it publically. I have sent that little piece to a few people for comment. Alas, little has come back. If you or anyone can rip it to shreds, do so. Then we all know. If it requires correction on better information, please update it.

As regards the nitty gritty: I havent done it, so I dont know the nuances.

Best Rgds
Poor is the man whose pleasures depend upon the permission of another.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - Zero" - Voltaire 1729
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