R4C - Refusal for Cause

Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby free_spirit » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:05 am

Hi Guys

Can anyone clarify.

I saw in a post somewhere else that WITHOUT PREJUDICE should be dropped from notices, is this correct.
But should be still include it on a refusal for cause written for example on an attempt to contract such
as a parking ticket?

Kind Regards

J
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:20 am

Without prejudice prevents anything on which it is written being brought as evidence, UNLESS both sides agree.

So, if you were to write REFUSED FOR CAUSE - NO CONTRACT, WITHOUT PREJUDICE, WITHOUT RECOURSE then in court, the documents (FPN, etc) would not be evidence unless you agree, too.

In summary, ONLY use WITHOUT PREJUDICE when you want to use it to your advantage, ie - FPN's.
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby free_spirit » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:29 am

Thanks for the BBD

I have been getting letters from DCA's. My Fisrt response was to send the template letter which tells them to go
away as they're 3rd party interlopers and have no business with me.

If they ignore this I have been sending any further communication back with a refusal for cause. In my mind
I was seeing this as further attempts to contract so I left off WITHOUT PREJUDICE and photocopied it before
sending it back. The idea being I can show it as proof that I didn't consent to contract with them.

Does that make sense?

J
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:17 am

It does, m8.

I would suggest using another template, asking for the documantation, under the Consumer Credit Act - you can find one here. Now, as they used the completed app form as a cheque, then used it for the money you 'borrowed', they will NOT have it will they? :wink:

So, you persue the ORIGINAL DOCUMENT which proves the debt/loan. Further to this, we also ask for proof of loss/debt, a signed invoice for the funds and a sworn affidavit from an officer of the company. None of these things are ever done - I have just had DCA number 5 contact me. I am getting pi55ed off now, so I am going for the bloody throat now. I intend a put-up or shut-up moment. Either prove the debt, or I will sue for harrassment.

There are various wrinkles on the standard responses, but stick with the standard for now. When they employ 6 DCA's in total, refuse original docs for 3 years and chase me while refusing to prove any accusation, then I think even a court would agree they have gone too far.

I have had offers to pay half the amount as full and final settlement! Well, if I really DID borrow a sum, why would they be content with half?

Keep at them, m8 - they can't prove anything.
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby free_spirit » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:23 am

Thanks for that BBD, my success is building by the day with this. These things take a little time
to get to grips with and understand (understanding is key and it builds confidence) but I'm getting there and my confidence is also building by the day.

Thanks again.

J
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:36 am

:grin: No worries, m8

I had a bit of a bum-spasming moment when my latest letter hit the mat, but I realise they have NOTHING ON ME! If they had, they would have had me in court and fleeced in a shot, wouldn't they?

No, you carry on, bud. You KNOW you had nothing from them, that YOU provided the money to THEM via a 'cheque'!! Just don't lose sight of it, that's the secret - they try to wear you down, so you'll just comply. F--K THAT! :mrgreen:
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jim » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:21 pm

kevin wrote:Hmm, :thinks: if you send it back with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" written on it, then they cant use it as evidence without your permission , what do they have to show the court? NOTHING!


I deliberately didn't write "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" on it. I WANT IT TO BE READ OUT IN COURT (not that I'll be there to see "them" read it). I imagine it will go something like this:

Magistrate: Did the defendant enter a plea by post before the hearing?

Court Clerk: Not exactly, your honour..

Magistrate: Well?

Court Clerk: Erm... He appears to have "refused" us "for cause"? Without dishonour. And we appear to have no recourse.

Magistrate: Balls. Well, I find in favour of the plaintiff. Let's see the defendant "refuse" that "for cause".

TRY ME!!!

Oh, and last night I took the paperwork out of the envelope I WAS going to send it in, numbered the pages, applied a tamper-evident seal, folded the paperwork up and attached a label with the mailing address on it directly to the document. I'm just off to the Post Office now to send it by recorded delivery. As far as I'm concerned it's getting read by the court because I'll have a record of its delivery and no sneaky bastard can try claiming all they received was an empty envelope because IT WASN'T IN AN ENVELOPE.

Peace

J
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jayen4 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:50 pm

Hmmm.... Will this 'refusal for cause' work for mortgages (for properties that have been re-posessed) ?? I have a court date coming up on the 4th december,whereby the mortgage company/bank are trying for a 'final charging order'. Will the above be of any use in this case ??
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby the_common_law_reverend_kenny » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:54 pm

Funny you should say that.... Mortgages are a special case ( in my personal view) what I mean is yes, the financial side is screwed up and can be challenged, BUT the land registry shows a charge, (that is accepted as a 'fact' by the judge) have you dealt with this aspect at all?

:peace:
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jayen4 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:30 pm

the_common_law_reverend_kenny wrote:Funny you should say that.... Mortgages are a special case ( in my personal view) what I mean is yes, the financial side is screwed up and can be challenged, BUT the land registry shows a charge, (that is accepted as a 'fact' by the judge) have you dealt with this aspect at all?

:peace:




Not entirely sure what you're getting at here.... (brain not working too well atm.).

I'll explain a bit of what's been going on....

Firstly,I got behind with the payments,due to loss of work (and the inability to get replacment work). So,ultimately they re-posessed the house. At the moment,they can't get a sale because of market conditions etc. There is also a small piece of land attached to the back garden,which at re-mortgage,their solicitors forgot to include the title number in the paperwork and they didn't even realise this until I told them that I still owned it,after re-posession. So.....they tried to grab it through Land Registry,using unilateral notices (UN4),which I have blocked every time,hence it has now been forced to the L.R. adjudicator. BUT,without waiting for this course of action to complete,the mortgage co.bank have gone back to the court dealing with the re-po and gained a 'charging order' for £96k over this disputed piece of land,which they don't even own (as per the paperwork) ! So now they are going for a 'final charging order' at court,on the 4th december,which I have been asked to attend.
So,that's it in a nutshell. There's something very wrong in all this as far as I can see.

The last time I was at court, I took along a Stat Dec,requesting that the mortgage co.bank provide irrefutble proof that I owed them ANYTHING. The damned judge refused to read it or even enter it into evidence ! Was he allowed to do that ?? It all seems as though the bank and the courts are 'in bed together' ! What can I do ??
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