R4C - Refusal for Cause

Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby barny00 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:28 pm

Hey there, just a suggestion - I have been going round my locality lately on the hunt for PCN'd cars and writing on them "DO NOT PAY www.tpuc.org KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!" I put tpuc because they have a clear message for it on their website.

So if you happen to spot one, be nice and help the poor travellers out :grin:
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby huntingross » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:21 pm

Hi jenny

My understanding of this process means you can (but not obliged to) explain your "Cause" of which "No Contract" would be a reason.....so my answer is you don't have to write no contract.
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jenny Jackson » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:35 pm

Hi huntingross

Many thanks for your reply, it was very useful. I was worried I had missed something out which could've weakened my case so it is good to know it was optional.

Do you know how long they have to send the NtO through the post?

I am going to repeat the r4c process on it but I am going to open the envelope and write on the contents. Is that what you did?
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby huntingross » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:46 pm

Hi jenny

I used to open the envelope, copy the wording onto the document, stick a Royal Mail recorded sticker on the original, copy the whole thing, get my local post office to stamp the original and the copy, stick it in an envelope and mail it Recorded.....As you can appreciate when you have a few of these per week it becomes very tedious.....and expensive.....

I now just stick a sticker on the un-opended envelope and stick it back in the box....much easier.

I don't know what the time limits are on the NtO....but that's not really important anyway.....

good luck
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jenny Jackson » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:16 am

Hi huntingross

Thanks again for your reply. Are you saying that if you put a sticker with the r4c wording on it and place it straight back in the letterbox it will get to the sender becasue their address is on the back of the envelope to you? I hope they do not peel the sticker off and claim it was never there.

One thing I didn't mention was that the PO clerk said she couldn't stamp the original pcn before I closed the envelope. Do you think this will be significant?
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby huntingross » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:43 am

If the PO clerk doesn't stamp the document, it's not fatal to the process....but its nice if they do.

I can't remember the last time I got an envelope that doesn't have their return address on the back, so this represents the easiest option with virtually no engagement required from us.

It doesn't matter if they peel the sticker off, because in that event, they could never prove it was delivered either....and the original is back in their hands.
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jenny Jackson » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:07 pm

huntingross,

It was the bit about them not being able to prove it had ever been delivered that I missed...that bit is really clever!

I still have not had a Notice to Owner from them yet. It is still early though as I only sent it back on Monday and it would have been with them Tuesday. I will get my r4c sticker ready just in case. I saw earlier comments on this thread about 'without prejudice' meaning any document with that written on it can't be produced as evidence without the permission of both parties but what do 'without dishonour,' and 'without recourse' mean in contract law?

I found this definition of 'without prejudice': "In law, the phrase without prejudice means that a claim, lawsuit, or proceeding has been brought to a temporary end but that no legal rights or privileges have been determined, waived, or lost by the result. For example, if a party brings a lawsuit in small claims court but discovers that the claim is over the amount for that court to have jurisdiction, the lawsuit can be dismissed "without prejudice".
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby huntingross » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:24 pm

hi jenny

This should put some meat on the bones of "without prejudice"

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=738&hilit=+without+prejudice#p5813

And here is "without recourse"

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Without+recourse
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby Jenny Jackson » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:37 pm

hi huntingross,

Thanks for that.

It has been a week and I have not heard anything back from them yet.
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Re: R4C - Refusal for Cause

Postby gepisar » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:03 pm

I had one, just before Xmas.
Someone had opened the PCN on my car (60quid) and it got all wet. It was from Islington council.
I let it dry, wrote over the crumpled mess "Refused for cause: no contract"
Posted it to their office which was specified on the ticket as where to send such items if i want to challenge.
Not heard back...2 months now.
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