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Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:02 pm
by the_common_law_reverend_kenny
Now I was gonna go ahead and put this in wacky ideas, but then as discovered, there's something a foot also discovered theres not a section called wacky ideas.. :puzz:

IN theory, if my machine (computer) was hitched to a shortwave two way radio (ssb) I could reproduce internet connectivity. IF other machines were using the same system. ( each machine would also have to run a local names(dns) server)

IF you understand how an old modem works then you can see why this is well worth researching. And feasible. :shh:

:peace:

p.s (yes only for forum like stuff and lite comms - not like video conferencing.. :sun: )

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:23 pm
by holy vehm
thats very interesting, i have a couple of old dial up modems in the loft.
worthy of some trial and error i think.

hv

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:39 pm
by gepisar
There are many solutions to this problem. What is your purpose? You still NEED a licence to use the radio spectrum. But if that is the point, then you may as well go ahead anyway...and broadcast on any old frequency, preferably the "reserved" police/SAS/SBS bands!!! Perhaps not though eh: the emergency services are life savers. Are you suggesting using the old CB frequencies? Im not too "up" on FM AM shortwave. Do you (technically) "NEED" a licence for SW? Is the bandwidth available? I thought thats why we generally use frequency modulation (FM) to widen the data-bus as it were?

I once thought about setting up a system that uses spare wireless bandwidth:

If you join the scheme, when you're router is quiet it can carry VOIP or whatever, like a zigbee solution. Then in dense population areas, you could just hop on to the meta-virtual network, and members would have free mobile at the courtesy of other members hardware/bandwidth.

Other solutions include satellite ADSL. Thats right, for a grand, you can plug one in to a 9v car battery in the middle of the amazon jungle and you're on!

I once made a phone call at 3am from the top of Mount Kota kinabalu (http://thelobby.com/LeMeridien_Kota_2.jpg) to London in perfect clarity. Liberating! Although it cost GBP3.00 per minute, when you think about it, its quite amazing. Well I say thats what it cost, thats what i paid, but thats another story!

However, for "forum like stuff" a central database server is required, highly available, and in theory, requires a reasonably fat data pipe.

Good thinking though!

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:51 pm
by the_common_law_reverend_kenny
Excellent post thanks.

purpose: private encrypted network -peer to peer- over radio waves.

Re. central server, I was thinking about peer to peer ( every machine has to full database-) it updates incrementally from there. ( no need for a fat pipe) The full database is every where on every box- a messenge to update the database can come from anyhere in the network, permissions included. Also based on key-cypher.
:peace:

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:14 pm
by huntingross
I haven't got a clue what you guys are really saying, other than it sounds like fun....back to the days of hiding under the sheets and listening to pirate radio.....

PS....would I still have to hide under the sheets.

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:11 pm
by gepisar
the_common_law_reverend_kenny wrote:Excellent post thanks.

purpose: private encrypted network -peer to peer- over radio waves.

Re. central server, I was thinking about peer to peer ( every machine has to full database-) it updates incrementally from there. ( no need for a fat pipe) The full database is every where on every box- a messenge to update the database can come from anyhere in the network, permissions included. Also based on key-cypher.
:peace:

Distributed databases were tried in the late 80's early 90's. (And are still in use today) The idea being exactly what you said, low-cost computers each holding a copy and highly resilient. However. The complexity of conflict resolution and updates increases exponentially with each new server and very quickly becomes a nightmare. Someone recently told me that google have a million database servers which if true, is astonishing.
We are now back to massively powerful mainframe computers... come back IBM all is forgiven!!!! (NOT)

Footnote: your typical ADSL wireless router/blutooth has sophisticated security built in and you can set up VPN tunnels (virtual private networks) but by now, i think we're showing ourselves the geeks we are. They are working on the radio frequencies anyway: gigahertz http://compnetworking.about.com/cs/wireless80211/a/aa80211standard.htm blah blah blah....

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:59 pm
by the_common_law_reverend_kenny

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:07 pm
by the_common_law_reverend_kenny

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:52 pm
by ArturoDekko
What you need is multi frequency reception and transmission software radio.
I saw the need some time ago for a bullet proof communications network that couldn't be got at. As long as you can find enough power to fire the computers, a worldwide community of like minded people could remain in contact no matter what.
First software radio. Any thing a radio can do can be replicated by computer software. A hard wired radio can only receive certain frequencies. Since software can replicate any type of radio, software radios can be programmed to operate on any frequency and can change frequency very fast. They need a bit of hardware to convert analogue radio into digital for the computer, about £200 here: http://www.ettus.com/index.html and article here: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/70933 and of course an arial.
Now the fun starts. This is technology they have not legislated against yet because not many people know and they want it to stay that way because it would be very difficult to police. The airwaves are actually very little used. Certain people own large blocks of airwave and only use a bit. Anything you can get a licence for must be fundamentally lawful. The software radio can scan the entire spectrum many times a second and knows exactly where all the gaps are. To transmit, the signal is broken into many tiny bits and thrown all over the air waves into the gaps. The receiving computer collects all the bits together again. Only a computer programmed to expect the signal would be able to recognise it, to anyone else, it would look like a random slight interference. Not knowing there was a signal would make it very difficult to track the location of the broadcaster, no one signal last long enough to be triangulated. Weather is not so much of a problem for software radio because it can always find bits that are clear and, if necessary, send multiple copies with algorithms to check validity.
There are existing peer to peer programs that would work fine with this. Generally, each computer carries a partition reserved for the net memory. The owner does not know what is being stored as it is encoded. To surf the net, you broadcast your request to the nearest ten computers that check to see if they have the content you are looking for, if not, they contact ten more ad inf.. When a computer is found with the information, it sends it back to the computer that asked for it and then on down the line till it gets back to you. Any one computer only knows the link before and the link after so the user and sender are totally anonymous. If the request is popular, the content is copied and stored in multiple places. Thus the "server" cannot crash or be got at because it is everywhere.
As long as someone somewhere is connected to the ordinary net, if there was one, everyone has access. It would work in conjunction with the methods outlined already.
It has been used to track the location of mobile phone user in a shopping centre so could, for instance, warn of an approaching police radio. It has also been used as a radar by calculatin the disturbance in the wave bands by approaching objects.
There is an immense amount of bandwidth out there, plenty for everyone to have 40G equivalent and no interference.
AD :sun:

Re: Radio Based Internet

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:23 am
by gepisar