Money from Nothing

Money from Nothing

Postby Free » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:37 am


We never really think about money. I mean, where it came from and why we have it.

Our schooling will teach us how to count it and how to spend it and how to save it. But it doesnt explain the history of it, who thought of it, who created it's concept and why.

What we call money, is simply a commodity we use in exchange for goods and services. Before 'money' we exchanged goods and services for goods and services. So what happenned to that?

A contract, you might say, was created between consenting individuals. One perhaps, could repair a roof while the other, who needed a roof repair was an excellent wheelright and could straighten diformed wheels. An agreement was created that gave equal weight in value to eachothers commodities and eachothers needs and henceforth were exchanged.

Nothing by way of new knowledge there of course. But a change from that simple system to what we see today must have occured at some point.

In an emergent economy, forever renewing itself with new ideas new beliefs new craves and desires, someone, considered that instead of offering a service or goods it might be an idea to offer something of, perhaps emotional value instead. Something of beauty perhaps, like gold or silver. An ideal material for making beautiful things, of value. Something precious and hard to find.

So instead of goods and services, tiny pieces of gold and silver were used. But these pieces of valued metal were rather bulky and often difficult to carry around. Perhaps, and I'm guessing here, that the blacksmiths and farriers became goldsmiths when someone had the good idea to uniform the pieces and give them different values depending on size. Coins of gold were much more convenient.

However the same problem existed, that too many gold pieces became very heavy indeed. And storing them meant that they could be stolen. So the goldsmith had another great idea. He would offer shelf space in his safe for the safe keeping of his friends gold in return for a small fee. A few pieces of gold per month perhaps. In return he wrote out a promise on a piece of paper noting the value of gold stored which could at any time be exchanged back for the gold.

As more and more people became aware of this service the goldsmith became swamped with people wanting shelf space. Thus the goldsmith made even more small fee's and became rather wealthy. In return as usual, a promissory note was issued to the value of gold stored by the goldsmith on behalf of the owner. However the goldsmith began to notice that, instead of exchanging their gold in the markets, the people were now exchanging the promissory notes believing them to be 'as good as gold' as they were afterall a promise to the holder or, bearer that at any time they could be exchanged back for the gold kept by the goldsmith.

The goldsmith made an observation. It appeared that hardly anybody ever wanted their gold back. At least not all at once and not all the people wanted all their gold back at the same time. So the goldsmith took a risk. He began lending some of the gold out, and would charge a small amount of gold on top for his trouble. But people knew that the gold was equal in value to the promisorry notes and began asking for those instead of the gold. The goldsmith very quickly realised that quite literally he could create a promissory note out of thin air based upon his gold reserves and chances are he'd be perfectly safe in the knowledge that all the people never wanted all their gold back at the same time.

So debts, owed to the goldsmith were quite simply just written on a piece of paper and given to the people in return for a small fee, interest. A small profit for the goldsmiths kind offer to lend and more importantly to quietly make profits while lending out nothing but a piece of paper. The goldsmith became very rich very quickly and the townsfolk began to worry about where their gold was. All at once, all together they queued at the goldsmiths wanting to see their gold. He showed them, still there in the vault because of course by now he was lending promissory notes not gold. However to give the people some comfort he let them in on the deal and offered them some interest on their 'savings'. As a thank you for allowing him to look after their gold.

This was the beginning of banking.

Today, we see the same principle in operation. Deposits are subsiquently lent out to borrowers in the form of a debt, owed back with interest. And since ALL the 'money' created is debt, it follows that all the repayments must be made with 'money' or promissory notes which, in turn were created in the same way and so on. ALL out of thin air based upon the holdings kept within the banks vaults. ALL money without exception is debt and is created by the borrower by their signature, or promise, to pay it back.

Ironic, that those who would consider us mad choose to live in the madness of an illusion
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby fries&brimstone » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:35 am

Fractional reserve banking, as you laid out above, is fraud. It could never have got off the ground if its mechanisms had been completely transparent from the outset.

Banking has gone through many stages:

1) The safekeeping of other people's gold deposits
2) The safekeeping of gold combined with loans limited by the size of the deposits
3) Safekeeping of gold with loans exceeding the size of deposits
4) The issuance of loans many times the value of the deposits
5) The issuance of loans without the need for deposits (fiat)

As we can see, it started with deposits without loans. It ends with loans without deposits. A complete reversal. It takes many generations to achieve this. Whether consciously or not, conditioning of the mass mind has to take place for society as a whole to agree to such a ridiculous state of affairs. Usury also has to become acceptable. The credit card, with its exhorbitant interest rates has done more to finish the job than any other tool of the bankers.

Yes - banking went from pure credit to pure debt. Money is now nothing more than a product of the mind. To love money is to love the mind of the usurer - a ghastly thought, indeed.

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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby Highspirit » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:42 am

Absolutely correct. Money is an illusion.

You know I was breaking some figures down and I like to draw a picture for people about their 'income' and expenditure which really seems to open some minds.

I point out to people that the banks have these all thrills advertisements on TV to encourage you to deposit money into a savings account. They promise to pay the depositor a huge amount of interest to look after their money at a rate of say 2% PER ANNUM. Of course they will only pay that 'extraordinary' amount of interest to the depositor on the basis that he does not touch that deposit for a whole year. Aren't they generous :-) Oh I do like the banks, lol

So say you deposit £1000 after being convinced that the bank obviously has your best interests at heart, aaawww.

The banks gleefully rub their hands now as they can use their 'Fractional Reserve' banking model and lend that money out to the value of at least 10:1 so they can now lend £10,000 on the basis of the £1000 being received/deposited and held for one year.

Ok, Firstly, how much is that deposit worth in one years time? Well we have inflation, which I think is currently running at around about 3-4% so in fact the deposit is worth around that amount less. Lets say 3% so your deposit is now worth £970.00.

But not to worry, the bank are paying us 2% so we do manage to pull a little back there. Wait a minute though, that means I am still out of pocket. Yes you are but it gets worse.

The bank are paying you interest at 2% on your £1000 so they are giving you £20. Wow, how generous. But you are still out of pocket by £10. Then of course you have received an income of the £20 so the goernment will tax that at your income tax level, say 40% because thats where most people are now heading. So they tax you £20 @40% and take £8.00 off you. You are left with £12.00. Ah, but wait a minute, there is some bank charges. The bank have been good to you and looked afer your money for 12 months remember.

So where do you stand now? Yes, still out of pocket. Not the banks though, no way. You see they have paid you 2% on your deposit which by their own banking laws they can then lend out £10,000 to a 'customer' by way of loans etc. Probably onto a 'Credit Card'. Now I accept that all loans are brought about from thin air on the signature of the customer but I am making loose reference here to how the banks should show they are holding X amount on deposit compared to what they have out in loans. Even though there is laws that say Banks should not lend depositors money.

OK, so the banks release a credit limit using the deposit of £1k onto a credit card of £10k (Fractional Reserve Banking) and they gladly charge an interest rate of say 18%+ COMPOUNDING.

Now, it just might be the same depositor who say has a credit card with the same bank he has money on deposit with. Let us ay they give that customer a £10k limit. It is then quite possible that the customer has put himself into debt with his own money he has on deposit with the same bank if he uses that card. He is then paying the huge interest rate even though his spend may be low whislt they pay him a meagre 2% before deductions on his savings.

That means they are charging interest on money that was created from thin air, it never exisisted and never will. The illusion is that it does exsist because the credit card holder can use the card to purchase goods and therefore it must be value. Well, that is wrong as we all know as all banks are involved within the system and have to accept the spends as being a proper transaction as they themselves are all involved in the same scam.

So we are now seeing people lose their homes because they may have a credit card debt they cannot pay for many different reasons. That means the lender is able to seize a 'Tangible asset' and transfer the wealth of the individual to the bank. All based on money they never had and never even exisited. The bank get your house based on the debt on the credit card that was raised from thin air from the fractional reserve banking model from the £1000 that was deposited by the customer. That means it could be your own deposit that is used to put you in debt, into problems and then subsequently losing your assets. Now, how bloody devious is that?

So, then we look at why people have had to resort to credit cards and loans in the first place. That is simple to understand when you look at what disposable income an individual is left with from their salary after deductions.

OK, let's look at Taxes. How many taxes are there? Bloody loads. but lets just keep to the main ones;

Income Tax - 22-45%
National Insurance (just another tax) - 11%
VAT - 15%
Council Tax - probably average of £100 per month
Road Tax
Capital Gains Tax
Inheritance Tax

I could go on and on.

The point is that from the point of you receiving a salary you have your deductions and as you can see at least 33% of your income has dissappeared at source to Income Tax. Howvever they are squeezing more and more into the 40% bracket and no doubt the next step is the 45% bracket will soon be applicable to your middle income earner by stealth. It was the ame when they introduced 40% Income Tax. Oh, don;t worry it's only for the really wealthy. Yea right.

So if you are paying 40% Income Tax then aded to NI you have already lost over 51% of your income. And that is before you even stat to pay all the other taxes. It has been stated by some that at least 80% of your income goes directly or indirectly to taxation. That means you are only really earning around 20p to the pound. Well, think about it, think about what you are paying yourself, break it down and see what you think you are paying.

Therefore, is it any wonder that people resort to credit just in some cases to eat and live? And of course some to 'keep up with the Jones's'. In addittion to that I have now heard that there are many people paying their monthly mortgage on their credit card. Oh dear, that is disasterous.

Overall, it is plainly obvious to me that this is a huge scam. That the banks operate this to transfer real wealth assets of the people to the banks by using money they introduced out of thin air and then had the cheek to charge interest on money that never did and never will exsist. Scandelous.

And then to top it all off, the government cannot afford to properly equip our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with a few hundred pounds per soldier but they can raise £1 TRILLION in a heart-beat to fund banks with Tax Payers money. That money being given to the banks in their words to 'keep the wheels of credit moving'. Mmmm in other words the Tax Payer gives the Banks £1 Trillion (that doesn't really exsist anyway, just digits on a computer screen) so the banks can lend it back to the tax -payers so the tax payers can pay interest on it again. The banks can then continue stealing the real wealth and houses of the people as they charge extorinate interest rates when people borrow money they need to just live because the Tax system is screwing them dry.

The rate we are going the banks will be repossesing millions of homes, the banks are being part owned or fully owned by the government which means they then own the houses and real wealth of the country. The government and the banks end up owning everything and all this is brought about by lending money that never did and never will exsist. Socialism or what?

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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby geebee » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:55 am

Once you have studied economics, you will understand it a bit more.
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby Highspirit » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:09 am

Mmmm even more of your lack of research then. Blind and ignorant to what is really happening. You keep on trusting the banks and government, they will never let you down will they. Economists, haha, how many of those supposed educated simpletons predicted the crunch we have and the huge down turn in the UK economy, oh what is that? None, but don't they know everything about economics? Even Gordon Brown has admitted this week that he didnt see it coming. Does he not have the best economic advisors available? Didn't see it coming!!! Now come on, it is only the worst recession we have had in 30yrs at the moment with the BoE predicting 'Depression' conditions. How does an economist not see what is possibly going to be the worst economic situation the UK has ever seen?

If you are going to critisise please provide evidence like everyone else here is doing. Not just some flippant comment. Rememebr, you are joining the police, evidence is er, important is it not?

I dont mind you critisising as long as you put forward evidence we can talk about.
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby geebee » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:16 am

Sorry no, there are lots of cycles of the system. Always have been. Always will be. I never said it was perfect. Stop getting personal.

What was your argument against the system when it was performing well?

In times of trouble, people l pop out of the woodwork complaining because they spent too much on their plasma tv and holiday in benidorm and cant pay the mortgage. Or got stopped speeding for the 4th time and might lose their license.

You complain, yet I have yet to hear any solutions form you. Or from anyone else here? How does your freeman plan fix these issues.
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby Highspirit » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:29 am

I have been presenting this 'Money Scam' to audiences for almost 3 yrs now. It is just that during times like this they tend to listen more and come to notice. The 'cycles' you describe can be researched and an argument put forward that they were manipulated into being.

Let me explain; If I owned every estate agents and Letting agents in any particular town do you think I could manipulate areas of the town to suffer house price and rent losses or gains to my own benefit. Too right I could. Now, I don't have to own them in my own name, I can call them all diferent names and no-one could connect them all to me if that is what I wanted to hide. Anytime another agents opens up I buy it or put it out of business through comptition.

It is assumed and I quite rightly believe, that all the top banks, oil companies, Pharama companies etc are either owned outright (in Trusts etc) or part owned by the same controlling people/families. In fact there is research you can do that would indicate that is certainly the case. you won't know for certain unless they come out and say so but that's not going to happen.

With that in mind these people can influence world economics as they see fit. They can influence the price of Oil, Shares etc at the drop of a hat. They can effect the price of a company share and bring it to its knees, buy the shares via a Trust and then support the company from elsewhere with a company loan for example and hey presto the shares rocket and the investors make a fortune. If you think this doesn't happen I urge you to think again.

We then have the economic cyclyes you refer to that I would contend are deliberately brought about (just like this one) to transfer the wealth of the people to the banks and private corporations. By the way, did youknow the Federal Reserve (regarded as the power house of worlds money supply) is a Private corporation based technically 'Off-Shore' in Delaware? and that it is about as Federal as Federal Express.
Last edited by Highspirit on Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby geebee » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:31 am

I repeat:

You complain, yet I have yet to hear any solutions form you. Or from anyone else here? How does your freeman plan fix these issues.
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby Highspirit » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:34 am

OK I hear you and there are various models that would in theory work well. I will leave Veronica to expalin some of these points.

You see there you go again with the piss take of tin foil hats. On that point though it is intereting to note what the likes of David Icke have been saying for 20yrs. He wrote books 20yrs ago stating that there is the aim of creating one world bank, one world army and one world currency amongst other things. This is written and available. He was being called a nutter then, that it would never happen.

What is happening today? mmm China and France at the G20 summit stated that we need one world currency. What has Gordon Brown been banging on about the last few months? Oh yes, a global banking solution.

Now Icke was being called a nutter 20yrs ago but what he said is coming into reality is it not? That cannot be denied.
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Re: Money from Nothing

Postby Wolf » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:06 am


Even if one wanted to maintain a similar monetary system the bottom line with this money stuff is that a country should have the right to print its own money. That money would then belong to that country and all the people in it. Since it now costs nothing to produce (just a computer entry) there would also never be a requirement for interest.

Trouble is the country does NOT print its own money. That right belongs to some very rich bankers. And THEY collect the interest payments. Whats more they never print the interest. Only the debt is ever in circulation. The interest can't be paid. Its like musical chairs. Everytime interest is due someone somewhere BY DEFINITION has to lose their house, business, car, shares, life savings.

So in a nutshell they produce money on a computer at will. We spend our whole lives paying them back money that was ours in the first palce. Its our country ! We should have produced the money. BUT we pay them back with our labour..real stuff. Its mind boggling clever. Please stay with it. It took me many years for the penny to drop. It will drop. I promise you.
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