A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby consumerpada » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:29 pm

Reply to second letter:
Dear Mr Consumerpada,

Thank you for your email

A birth certificate is not and cannot be evidence of identity and all
certificates printed since 1993 contain a caution to that effect. All
government departments are aware of this and whilst a birth certificate may
play a part in verification procedures, none will accept a certificate as
sole evidence of identity .

However, various companies or agencies may, in the past, have been prepared
to accept it as such, without any further documentation. That would have
been a decision taken by the individual company or organisation.

With regards to the statement "Warning - A certificate is not evidence of
identity" the decision was made back in 1993. It is understood that the
decision was made administratively by the Registrar General to include the
statement to held reduce fraudulent use of certificates. This would have
been a decision made under the authority of the Registrar General in the
same way that other decisions are made under the power/authority of the
Registrar General and are not attributable to any individual civil servant.
As the decision was made in 1993 we are having to research in order to
provide more detail in relation to your request. We will supply any further
information as soon as we can or confirm the limitations of our records.

The Registration Act allows members of the public to view the Indexes of
events compiled and supplied by the General Register Office and to view the
current (last 3 months events) register at any local office.

To view an item in the current register at the local office, you must be
able to identify the entry you are seeking, and you would not be allowed
access to the whole register, just that entry.

There is no provision to view the deposited registers as they are then the
property of the Superintendent Registrar. We do not feel it would be
illegal to make the request, but it would not be granted.

Present legislation ( the Birth and Deaths Registration Act 1953 ) is quite
specific about the means by which access to information about registration
of events may be obtained. This legislation allows individuals, if they are
able to provide sufficient information to identify a particular register
entry to obtain a certified copy (certificate) of that event from either
the GRO in Southport or the local register office where the event took

The Registrar General is required by law to make public indices of
registration events available, as this is classed as public information and
as such is not covered by the law designed to protect individuals against
inappropriate release of confidential data. As stated before, you can view
the Indexes which are published and available to the public approximately
18 months after the event.

Since the information is classed as public information, it is not covered
by the Freedom of Information Act.

I hope this answers your questions.

Yours Sincerely

Persons name
GRO Contact Centre
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby kliff » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:37 am

Its all in the wording-


Now THAT IS a question.

I am who I say I am - I am not who someone else says I am or who they suspect me of being. The onus of proof is on them it cannot be on me, my reasoning is this:

We are conceived out intercourse between a male and female of our species, these two living beings are known as your parents.

When you are born your parents register you on to the database that that particular community you are born in to keeps. At that point you are “named” in other words you are appointed a label.

Usually this label consists of a cognomen (Surname or Family name) (The cognomen (Lt.: co, "together with," and nomen, "name"; plural, cognomina) was the third name of a citizen of Ancient Rome, under Roman naming conventions. The cognomen started as a nickname, but lost that purpose when it became hereditary (and thus more like a family name) and “given” name (the one your parents like and have chosen to call you.

Once this has been done you are issued a “Birth Certificate” this certificate has many uses both seen and unseen but essentially it confirms that YOU now exist as a PERSON within a Society/Community.

The certificate contains various information that your parents imparted to the person filling in the questionnaire that constitutes the register of Births, Marriages and Deaths.

AT NO POINT ARE THEY ASKED TO PROVIDE IRREFUTABLE PROOF OF ANYTHING. They are not asked for proof of their ID, they are not asked to provide proof they are your natural parent/s or anything else - NOTHING! Why? Read on!

Essentially the ONLY documentary evidence that YOU have that YOU exist is your issued birth certificate.


Have you ever wondered WHY this is on a birth certificate?

It goes something like this:

As I said, your parents “inform” the Registrar that you have been born, at no point are they asked to prove anything about you and your existence, in other words its hearsay.

On or around your 16th “Birthday” you are issued a National Insurance number on the hearsay information that you have been born, so now you have two pieces of ID both issued by the Government on hearsay evidence.

You need to apply for a driving licence so you are asked to provide evidence of identity and advised the following:

“Identity documents
You must provide original documents. DVLA won’t accept photocopies or laminated certificates.

United Kingdom (UK) digital passports
If you hold a digital passport (the photograph and signature appear on the same page), DVLA can confirm your identity with the Identity and Passport Service. You don’t have to send your passport to DVLA.

When applying online you’ll be asked to provide your nine digit passport number allowing DVLA to confirm your identity.
If you apply by post, using the D1 'application for a driving licence', write your nine digit passport number and your signature in the 'confirming your identity' section of the D1 form.

Other types of identification
DVLA also accepts the following documents as confirmation of your identity. Unlike the digital passport though, you'll need to send your identity document with your application:
•full valid current passport
•National identity card issued by a member state of the European Community/European Economic Area (EC/EEA)
•UK identity card for foreign nationals / residence permit or travel documents issued by the Home Office
•UK certificate of naturalisation
Do not send in your passport if you need it within the next month. If this is the case you should consider delaying your licence application until you can send it with your passport to DVLA.

If you’ve reached State Pension age, you can provide originals of one of the following in your name:
•recent (within three months) bank or building society statement showing your pension payment and National Insurance number
•BR2102, BR2103 or BR5899 letter confirming your eligibility for the State Pension
UK birth and adoption certificates
UK birth and adoption certificates can also be used, however, as they are not absolute proof of identity, they must be accompanied by one of the following:
•National Insurance card or a letter from the Department for Work and Pensions containing your National Insurance number
•photocopy of the front page of a benefits book or an original benefits claim letter
•P45, P60 or pay slip
•marriage certificate or divorce papers (decree nisi or absolute)
•college or university union card or school record
If you don't have a birth or adoption certificate, or the one that you have doesn’t show your full name or country of birth, contact your local register office.”

OK now let’s look at this.

All the above documental “criteria” are all issued on the original hearsay information and one of the most important pieces of evidence is not your “Birth Certificate” as it has already stated the it is not evidence of identity; it’s you passport. So, when you apply for your passport you are asked to provide the following supporting documentation and advised:

“Supporting documents
IPS needs to see original documents that prove you are British. IPS does not accept photocopies of documents.
IPS normally accepts laminated documents for change of name purposes only, but documents that are laminated for Braille labelling are acceptable for all types of application.

A birth certificate is not considered absolute proof of identity. Even if you were born in the UK, IPS may ask to see further documents.
If your name has changed or is about to change

You may need to supply extra documents in this case. You should check by following the link below.

If your name has changed or is about to change - first adult passport If you were born or adopted in the UK

If you were born in the UK before 1983, IPS needs to see your UK national identity card or your birth or adoption certificate.

If you were born in the UK on or after 1 January 1983, IPS needs to see your UK national identity card or your full birth or adoption certificate showing your parents' details and one of the following:
•your mother's UK birth certificate, Home Office certificate of registration or naturalisation, or her passport that was valid at the time of your birth
•your father's UK birth certificate, Home Office certificate of registration or naturalisation, or his passport that was valid at the time of your birth and your parents' marriage certificate

IPS may ask for further documents relating to your parents.

If you were born outside the UK and have a certificate of naturalisation or registration from the Home Office

In this case IPS needs two documents:
•your naturalisation or registration certificate
•your UK national identity card or the passport on which you entered the UK

If you were born before 1983 and are a citizen of a British overseas territory

In this case IPS needs two documents:
•your birth certificate
•your current passport

If you were born before 1983 but your father was born in the UK

In this case IPS needs four documents:
•your full birth certificate showing your parents' details
•your father's birth certificate*
•your parents' marriage certificate*
•the passport on which you entered the UK

Note*: if you have a birth certificate issued by a British consulate or high commission abroad, you can send that instead of your parents' birth and/or marriage certificates.”

Again, all the above documentation is issued on the original hearsay information BUT now you have to supply the following:

A countersignatory on your application form and you are advised the following:

“What the counter signatory has to do
Your countersignatory must sign the form at section 10 to confirm that they have known you for more than two years and that you are who you claim to be. (If the form is for a child passport, the countersignatory should know the person who signs the declaration at section 9 rather than the child.)

The application form asks the countersignatory to enter their current British passport number (Irish passport numbers are also acceptable). This is so the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) can check their identity.

You should give the countersignatory:
•your completed application form (signed and dated at section 9)
so that they can seal the application after completing section 10.

Getting your photos certified
Your countersignatory should also certify one of your photos if the application is for a:
•first passport
•replacement passport
•passport renewal and you look very different from the photo in your most recent passport

They do this by writing on the back as follows:
•‘I certify that this is a true likeness of [Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms or other title followed by your full name]’

They must then sign and date the statement. It is not enough just to sign and date the photograph.

Who you can ask to be your countersignatory

Your countersignatory should:
•have known you for at least two years
•live in the UK

Your countersignatory should not:
•be related to you by birth or marriage
•be in a personal relationship with you
•live at the same address as you

Your countersignatory should be a professional person or a person of good standing in the community. The list that follows gives examples of the type of person that would be suitable. If you are not sure who to ask you can call the IPS Passport Adviceline on 0300 222 0000.
•airline pilot
•articled clerk of a limited company
•assurance agent of recognised company
•bank/building society official
•chairman/director of limited company
•commissioner of oaths
•councillor (local or county)
•civil servant (permanent), but not someone who works for IPS
•director/manager of a VAT-registered charity
•director/manager/personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
•engineer (with professional qualifications)
•financial services intermediary (eg a stockbroker or insurance broker)
•fire service official
•funeral director
•insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
•Justice of the Peace
•legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
•licensee of public house
•local government officer
•manager/personnel officer (of a limited company)
•member, associate or fellow of a professional body
•Member of Parliament
•Merchant Navy officer
•minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
•nurse (RGN and RMN)
•officer of the armed services (active or retired)
•paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
•person with honours (an OBE or MBE, for example)
•photographer (professional)
•police officer
•Post Office official
•president/secretary of a recognised organisation
•Salvation Army officer
•social worker
•teacher, lecturer
•trade union officer
•travel agent (qualified)
•valuer or auctioneer (fellows and associate members of the incorporated society)
•Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers”

So the key thing here is that a) they must have to have known you for at least two years and live in the UK BUT b) must not be related to or live with you!

So even you parents who originally informed on you can’t certify who you are only someone who has known you for only two years can! It’s absurd!!!!!!

So all your “official documentation” is issued on hearsay and that hearsay can’t ultimately be backed up by your parents, the ONLY beings on this planet that can IRREFUTABLEY say that they can truly identify YOU!

Now that has got to be food for thought has it not?
:puzz: :thinks:

It's all in the words:

Extracted from the Direct.Gov web site:

“Who can register the birth?
If parents are married at time of birth or conception, either the mother or father can register the birth on their own.”

Right two words that stick out are: BIRTH and CONCEPTION – Eh.. Hello, they DO NOT MEAN THE SAME THING!

Now what do we make of that? How does the male parent know that HE WAS present at the conception – he doesn’t; ONLY the female knows she was!


“If they aren’t married, to ensure both parents’ details are included on the birth certificate, there are several options:
•both parents can go and sign the birth register together
•if one parent cannot go to the register office, they will need to complete the statutory declaration form - the parent registering the birth should give the completed form to the registrar
•where there is a parental responsibility agreement in force or either parent has an appropriate court order, this can be presented at the time of registration
If the father's details are not included in the birth register, it may be possible to re-register at a later date.”

Total nonsense, I won’t even bother to analyse that part.


“If the mother or the father cannot attend, the following people can register the birth:
•occupier of the house or hospital where the child was born
•someone who was present at the birth
•someone who is responsible for the child”

In other words ANYONE!

So anyone can inform the authorities about a birth - WHAT IS THAT ABOUT!!!!!

And they certify that is the truth...... DOH!

And that is why A CERTIFICATE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF IDENTITY! Because they don't really know, they only want to enslave you. It's not rocket science..... It's deceit, plain and simple!
My consent is neither expressed nor implied.
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby Farmer » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:33 pm

Then if you cannot provide identification, meaning being a slave, then you don't need a driving license because they are refusing to issue one, or rather, they can't.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby Highspirit » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:31 pm

Great post kliff and very true. Now, think about how the declaration of birth, the informing of the birth etc fit into a trust. Then think about what the trust 'res' is and then think about how that trust can and does enslave you.

Crack that and your'e well on your way to complete freedom imho.

HS :)
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby kliff » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:10 am

Yep in one! It's all about trust :clap:

My confidence in the Government was shaken many, many moons ago and I trust them not one little iota. I worked in central government for many years and saw a great many things, not ALL bad but.......

The deception is great and it relies on trust but that trust is one way, you trusting them, they don not have to trust you because they set the levels and tell you what they want you to know HOWEVER, you HAVE to tell them everthing an so you are forced to trust them with the information and they use it against you.

It's as simple ast that - tell he government nothing and they can do nothing; in other word do not recind your authority, as it says on another web site THEY WORK FOR YOU :grin:
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby the_common_law_reverend_kenny » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:39 am

A certificate is not evidence of Identity, bang on, it is evidence of title.

ref http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4653

SOVEREIGN: not controlled by outside forces: autonomous; self-governing; independent "a sovereign people" <> "by any peaceful administritive means necessary" - the way of the order.
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby kliff » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:53 pm

the_common_law_reverend_kenny wrote:>>
A certificate is not evidence of Identity, bang on, it is evidence of title.

A title bestowed upon you, without your consent and your parents knowledge, BUT the thing is, we are now able to get information much more readily and we are now becoming educated in the devious ways in which the system works – knowledge is power.

Perhaps in a couple of generations and certainly as more and more people wake up we will refuse to register our off spring – how about this….

“Published on 5 Nov 1992 by Herald Scotland”
A WOMAN who refused to register her daughter's birth because she wanted her to be Scottish and not British will not be prosecuted.

Mr William Orr, procurator-fiscal at Inverness, confirmed yesterday that proceedings against Miss Stella Anderson, 27, of Shillinghill, Alness, have been dropped.

Miss Anderson is the common-law wife of constitutional campaigner Brian Robertson, known as ''Robbie the Pict''.”


How about this:

“Published on 5 Nov 2015 by Herald FREEDOM”
A HUMAN who refused to register her daughter's birth because she wanted her to be HUMAN and not a PERSON will not be prosecuted.

Mr Justice ?, confirmed yesterday that proceedings against HUMAN BEING, FREEMAN ON THE LAND have been dropped because it is their natural right no to be registered and used as collateral." :grin: :grin:
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