Allodial Title is Real

[HumanBeing-BeingHuman]

Rather here, 'ownership' means it's [the land] a part of Englands
Lands... we couldn't have lots of 'Passports to Pimlico' popping up, now could we ? Or could we...

Can't be too sure with the British Crown (which is NOT E-Lizardeath II, btw). The British Crown in Temple Bar like to own everything.

Bl**dy *ell, if allodial title proves to be possible, we could have the french buying chunks of Kent... let's be careful what we wish for !

They already own all the Bus Operators (in London, at least)

Nothing is sacred these days.

Bus operators... any affiliation with "First Group" or whatever they are calling themselves now? If so they have been buying up a lot of the mass ground transport companies in the US as well (greyhound/amtrak just to name 2).

[flora]

the wiki article seems to suggest that there is "allodial title" and "true allodial title"...? If allodial title means true allodial title in scotland then could it be said that planning statute and regulation controlling the use of your land could be called into question? Ie. If you have absolute ownership then it would appear that current enforcement powers of the planning authority cannot and should not be applicable? Afterall... Paying for planning permission and building warrants.. You are essentially paying taxes. Very interested in the allodial title subject and how it applys in scotland as i hold an allodial title and do not have a mortgage or secured loans nor have i ever been asked to pay council tax.

[huntingross]

Well I'm meeting the structural engineer on Sunday to go over the design, hope to be putting the panels together over the next few months and then start building early next year.

No intention of speaking to planners or building control, will not be paying any taxes as a consequence of this being my residence, and won't be notifying my neighbours as non are close enough to be effected.

If Scotland had better weather, why wouldn't everyone want to be here.

Wiki's reference to 'true' allodial title, is in the context of other titles are pretenders to the claim....not degrees of allodial.

[Farmer]

I may just move up there in the future. Just been wondering about the possible coming ice age.

[huntingross]

I'm thinking of getting my house sorted and established as a principle then intend to buy up corners of fields and start offering allodial title land with development opportunities....will even build the house if required....keeps me employed and spreads the word.

[flora]

thanks for clearing that up huntingross... Would like more info.. Lawwise on allodial title.. Any suggestions? Anyways.. You could say i'm in a similiar situation. Am living on my land in "alternative" accomodation and will be building as well. I have zero intention in applying for planning or warrants and that was even before i kent about allodial title. I'm the same.. Only one neighbour i would have to notify and he could careless what we do and we are friendly. Anywho, council are already threatening to kick me off my own land!?! Told me i have to apply for planning because i am changing the use of my land... I told them no, i will not be putting in for permission because i don't believe i need it and anyways it would be against my human rights to evict me from my home if they take their threatened enforcement action. Haven't heard a word in months now. They have also been spying on me... Without authorisation under their own draconian statutes. I had to threaten a court order to get my case file under the data protection act and that is how i discovered they have been using covert surveillance without authorisation or reason. I believe that by breaching their own statutes they have forfeited any tacit consent they thought they had from me to obey their statutes... Estoppel or personal bar or breach of legitimate expectation as it's called in scotland. Anybody know about that? However, i am now wondering how i can make the allodial title work for me... Any suggestions? Huntingross... Just wondering.. If you sell plots will they not just be automatically allodial titles? Why do you have to sell them as allodial titles?

[huntingross]

They'll be allodial because I'll take care to register them free of burdens and debt, people, ordinarilly may not take sufficient care or not understand the importance.....so it will give me the opportunity to take the whole process through from recording at the land registry, design and build if required.

The benefit is cutting through the red tape, its tax free, and you get a house of your dreams for an affordable price...sounds like a win win.

The human rights act doesn't apply, they will throw you off if you fight that battle....I tried it....but you might find a different experience. This is why I spent time securing the Copyright side of things before I secured the land side of it....I was going to go down the 'no authority - equal under the law' route until allodial popped right up there.

Estoppel or personal bar or breach of legitimate expectation as it's called in scotland

I didn't know that, but it would explain why 'estoppels' was picked up by the notary.

[flora]

yea... Estoppel is england and wales and in scots law it is personal bar or legitimate expectation. And... Their principles and practice don't directly translate either. Interested to hear why you say the human rights doesn't apply? Anywho, they've gone quiet for one reason or another and have confirmed that enforcement action is deferred. Even deferred it officially at a committee meeting so.. I dunno. So, you sell them without burdens? You mean real burdens.... Does this mean with no burdens of any type at all? Some burdens are heritable and cannot be revoked.. They are et al time coming. Or did this change completely after abolition of feudal tenure? Also, inscotland it is extremely rare that there would be no real burdens and also rare to get full mineral rights.

[huntingross]

The court decided there was no conflict between enforcement action, homeless and human rights....that the 'system' has sufficient safe guards built in.....he-yeah right. Enforcement can be stayed....we did it for nearly 10 years...but once its on the property, it stays with the property, removed only by a compliant application and approval.

It is extremely unlikely to buy a corner of a farmers field and find there was a pre-existent burden on it....corners tend to be more interesting for development and less useful to farmers....and virgin ground with no planning history.

[flora]

should clarify... I was tjreatened with enforcement action and it was authorised by committee without my knowledge. I read in the newspaper that they did this... First i had heard of it and then approached them. They then changed their mind about serving an actual enforcement notice. Ie. Nothing officially has happened besides an idea thrown about. I would have to disagree that human rights do not come into play as the caroline barry case in england proves. I would agree that it is not a strong argument however this is only a side dish for my main argument. I wouldn't be quite so sure about the burdens on farmers fields though if i were you. I live in a "farmers field" and i am an owner-occupier of a croft and i have heritable burdens dating back to 1695. Most land will have these although they will be as daft as mine like about having to share the cost of boundary ditches and dykes. However, you intimate allodial titles that have burdens may revoke the true status of the allodial title. Is this what your saying? Thanks for your input.