Court summons over school attendance

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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby wanabfree » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:32 pm

I feel it’s only fair to anyone else reading who really does want to learn from the fallacies prevalent on this forum; I quickly give an explanation on this issue of giving a “plea”, as I didn’t realy address it the way I should have done.

As previously stated, in this thread ““If you make any kind of plea, you give them the right to judge you. Do not plead”

My reply “total nonsense, were did you get that idea from?”

Here’s why it is nonsense:

It’s what’s defined as a form of “Equivocation”

Definition: Equivocation is sliding between two or more different meanings of a single word or phrase that is important to the argument.

Example: “Giving money to charity is the right thing to do. So charities have a right to our money.” The equivocation here is on the word “right”: “right” can mean both something that is correct or good or justified (as in “I got the right answers on the test”) and something to which someone has a claim (as in “everyone has a right to life”). Sometimes an arguer will deliberately, sneakily equivocate, often on words like “freedom,” “justice,” “rights,” and so forth; other times, the equivocation is a mistake or misunderstanding. Either way, it’s important that you use the main terms of your argument consistently.

The statement made by (TFG) could also be interpreted as “the Appeal to consequence, and/or the Consequences of a Belief”.
If you want to understand how to effectively plea in court, watch this video by Marc Stevens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNuFxsBow8k
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby Too Far Gone » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:40 pm

First up, you're wrong about the pleading. If you do not plead the court will enter a plea for you. You have the right to remain silent at all times. You're wasting my time and derailing this thread.
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby wanabfree » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:17 am

Too Far Gone wrote:First up, you're wrong about the pleading. If you do not plead the court will enter a plea for you. You have the right to remain silent at all times. You're wasting my time and derailing this thread.



I’m wrong oh really ?

Clearly you haven’t bothered watching the video, or learnt anything from it, if you did ?.

You said,

“If you make any kind of plea, you give them the right to judge you. Do not plead”

You say nothing about,”If you do not plead the court will enter a plea for you” ?, that’s another issue altogether, from the one you was raising, so stop with the red herrings, you made a logical fallacy, one of many, I pointed that particular one out, end of story.

What sense is anyone supposed to make from what your saying ? ”Stay silent” ?, you then admit they will plea for you, if you don’t ? i.e. staying silent ?.

So how are they not awarding themselves the “right to then make a judgment about you ? i.e. by deciding your therefore choosing to plead not guilty, which is effectively representing you, which then in turn contradicts their claim to be independent and impartial ?. and don’t try to twist the term judgment either, it won’t wash.

So you say, stay silent, in order not to give them any “rights” over you, and yet they still take it upon themselves to plea for you anyway ?, so who gave them that “right” ?, oh that’s right, you did, by way of your silence ?.

Maybe you haven’t thought this through ?

I think you’re under the false or deluded impression you’re given, or have a choice either way? the reality is YOU DON’T HAVE CHOICE.

And that is one of the biggest failings of the “freeman ideologies, and concepts”

You plea or else, or you stay silent or else; that isn’t a choice or a strategy, instead you expose the contradiction, that’s logic, and that’s how you deal with it, Marc’s video points this out very well.


“You have the right to remain silent at all times” is pretty irresponsible advise,for Scorpio's situation, given that, they can take a negative or prejudicial inference from it (that means, it can be used against you), they aren’t being arrested, which creates, in their minds a situation where silence is an issue, but instead being forced into court under a summons (i.e. a written threat), different circumstances, and they are not given a “right of silence”.

also this isn’t an American court, the rules are slightly different, I would read a book on British Civil and criminal procedure rules, that’s up to date, if I were you ?, and maybe stop listening to American and Canadian guru’s without checking the differences first, if any ?, and the internet won’t help you there, you have to visit a real library for that information, or buy a book, it’s called active research.

I am derailing the thread ?, that could only happen if there was something worthy of derailing apart from only one reply that was half sensible, the rest is complete bull.

A parents and Childs welfare is at stake here; playtime is over, so like I said before risk your own neck on your stupid advice, not someone else’s.
I would sooner they take their chances with a solicitor representing them, or throw themselves to the mercy of the court, than listen to some of you lot.
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby musashi » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:33 pm

This thread needs to stop here or get back on topic. It's turning into TPUC and we do not need that!

I confess to my little part in the uproar and you should all do the same then walk away and leave it. The main thing is to help where we can, when it is called for and when it is appropriate. If we have somewhat differing ideas about help - and not one of us has the whole truth - then we should offer ours and let others do the same without entering a big dick contest.

If others disagree - and they are entitled to - take what goodness there may be in what they say and continue on. Why argue when you can express your disagreement merely by stating your own ideas of how to proceed without attacking or insulting. Attacks and insults are not tolerated here and should stop immediately. Please do not feed the trolls.

Make your input and let the OP make his choice.

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It's still fucked, isn't it?
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby SCORPIOUK » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:53 pm

Musashi thanks for your advice and everyone who has inputed. I am in court tomoz and i will let you all know how it goes.
Any info help or support or advice given on the forum by any member is accepted and much
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby SCORPIOUK » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:31 pm

Hi guys i have an update from court i went with my wife we both managed to get into court and out again with out giving jurisdiction we simply refused to sit as we were already standing when we did sit we did of our own accord, and once there refused to stand when ordered to do so. they said we had to stand by law i said show where in law it sates this the magistrate said please you can just go you dont have to stand lol. I asked them if they were standing under there oaths today to which the clerk replied no of course there not. I was just testing the water i asked the magistrates if they were aware the court is being used by the council to enforce fixed penalty notices with out trial of any kind they didnt know what to say they were dumbfounded every time they asked do you understand i simply said no i dont stand under that statement . anyway we presented a statement to the court explaining all that had taken place regard daughters illness and the time off and the fact that we believed the school had failed in there duty of care towards her and that the procedure they followed was unfair as we hadnt had a chance to put our side or give any explanation. the prosecutor she just sat there said nothing at the end she said i think we need to adjourn as i am not in the possession of all the facts case is adjourned till april the 8th :8-): :8-): :8-): :8-):
Any info help or support or advice given on the forum by any member is accepted and much
appreciated and no member of this forum will be held responsible for any help or support or advice given
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby Too Far Gone » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:10 pm

Congrats on getting a result.
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby wanabfree » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:54 pm

replying to your pm scorpio
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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby musashi » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:05 pm

Well done there!
A marvellosly eclectic use of all the different inputs to this troubled thread. :clap:

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Re: Court summons over school attendance

Postby Dreadlock » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:13 pm

Hi Scorpio,

The clerk admitting that the magistrates were not under oath just goes to show that what you attended was not a proper court but merely an administrative hearing. It is also evidence that Pitano was very likely correct when he said the summons was not a legitimate court summons. I hope you went ahead with the FOI request, as I suggested, if for no other reason than as a learning exercise - it certainly can't do any harm.

Unfortunately you did give the "court" jurisdiction in two ways. Firstly, you attended in the capacity in which you were summonsed and responded in that capacity. To put it another way, if you had attended and the court had told you that you were to play the part of a dog, because a dog had committed the offence of pooping on the pavement, would you have said "Ok! I'll be that dog!"? When you go to court, the court assumes that you know what role you are playing and that you are there to play that role - they certainly aren't going to tell you what your role is, that would give the game away. If at the time that a dog pooped on the pavement you were playing a cat, then tell the court that. They have jurisdiction over the dog that committed the offence - not the cat that didn't! And it's up to them to prove that you were playing a dog at the time and not a cat!

Secondly, when you proceeded to present your statement to the "court" you implied that they have authority and jurisdiction. If the court had been populated by 10 year old children, would you have bothered to make your presentation to them or would you have simply walked out, thereby denying that they have any authority or jurisdiction? By giving a presentation, even to a bunch of ten year olds, you are implying that they have authority and may stand in judgment of you.

On the bright side you said enough to cause the prosecutor to ask for more time so maybe there is a legal flaw in their case. :)
Hope my explanation of what is happening in these places helps. Good luck on the 8th.
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