Council tax rating lists

Council tax rating lists

Postby Rongo121 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:03 pm

Howdy folks.

Before you read these posts, (they are very long) be advised it seems i may have got it wrong.
Just had a conversation with the valuation office, and my property is not on the non-domestic rating list so it's not classed as a business after all.
It looks like council tax rating may be a completely separate list.
My apologies for wasting anyone's time.
In Halsbury's it does'nt tackle council tax until way way down the book, hence the confusion.
In hindsight i should have read the whole thing before posting anything about it.
I would suggest going to page 2 as i'm now finally going through the council tax section in Halsbury's and if i do find anything interesting i'll post it there.



I've been looking at Halsbury's laws of England, available on this site,(rating and council tax section (volume 39 (1b)).

I found section 9 very interesting.

9. Rating lists.

The Local Government Finance Act 1988 makes provision for three types of rating lists: (1) non-domestic rating lists;(2) central non-domestic rating lists; and (3) rural settlement lists. For the purpose of deciding what is shown in a list for a particular day the state of the list as it has effect immediately before the day ends is to be treated as having been its state throughout the day.
When ascertained, values for rating purposes are embodied in local non-domestic rating lists prepared by valuation officers for billing authorities. A local rating list must contain such particulars as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State (or the Welsh Ministers, as the case may be) with respect to every relevant non-domestic hereditament in the billing authority's area.
The central valuation officer must compile and maintain central non-domestic rating lists. The contents of a central non-domestic rating list are prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State with a view to securing the central rating en bloc of certain hereditaments.
Each billing authority must compile and maintain a rural settlement list. This enables certain hereditaments to be entitled to a reduction of the non-domestic rate.

Did you notice anything odd? NON-DOMESTIC!!!

This is their definition of domestic property from the "Local government finance act 1988" which is still in force.

66 "Domestic property.(1)[F1Subject to subsections (2), (2B) and 2E below], property is domestic if—
(a)it is used wholly for the purposes of living accommodation,
(b)it is a yard, garden, outhouse or other appurtenance belonging to or enjoyed with property falling within paragraph (a) above,
(c)it is a private garage [F2which either has a floor area of 25 square metres or less or is] used wholly or mainly for the accommodation of a private motor vehicle, or
(d)it is private storage premises used wholly or mainly for the storage of articles of domestic use".

There's a whole lot more in this section of the act, but i could'nt find anything which for most people would make their property non domestic. You'll need to take a look for yourselves.

Then i came across this:

Halsbury's Laws of England/RATING AND COUNCIL TAX (VOLUME 39(1B) (REISSUE))/2. NON-DOMESTIC RATING/(3) RATEABLE OCCUPATION/(vii) The Hereditament/33. Unit to be assessed.

(vii) The Hereditament

33. Unit to be assessed.

For the purposes of the non-domestic rating provisions, the unit of assessment is the hereditament, which for the purposes of non-domestic rating is anything which, by virtue of the definition of hereditament in the General Rate Act 1967 (now repealed), would have been a hereditament for the purposes of that Act if the Local Government Finance Act 1988 had not been passed. The General Rate Act 1967 defined heredita-ment as 'property which is or may become liable to a rate, being a unit of such property which is, or would fall to be, shown as a separate item in the valuation list'. A hereditament is non-domestic if either it consists en-tirely of property which is not domestic, or it is a composite hereditament. A hereditament is a relevant he-reditament if it consists of property of any of the following descriptions: (1) lands; (2) coal mines; (3) mines of any other description, other than a mine of which the royalty or dues are for the time being wholly reserved in kind; and (4) any right to use land for the purpose of exhibiting advertisements or for the purpose of op-erating meters which measure a supply of gas or electricity (or some other specified service) and which are not operated by consumers. All relevant hereditaments must be entered in the local non-domestic rating list.
A single property is not necessarily rateable as a whole: where parts of a building are separately occupied, the parts form separate hereditaments. Structural severance of the parts is not essential. However, property in one occupation may in some circumstances form more than one hereditament. Where parts of the prop-erty are not within the same curtilage, or are not contiguous to one another, or are capable of separate letting, or are used for entirely different purposes, the parts may form separate hereditaments. Where premises in one occupation are divided by a highway they will form separate hereditaments unless they are so essential in use to one another that they should be regarded as a single hereditament.
The Secretary of State (or the Welsh Ministers, as the case may be) may make regulations providing that in prescribed cases: (a) anything which would (apart from the regulations) be one hereditament must be treated for rating purposes as more than one hereditament; and (b) anything which would (apart from the regulations) be more than one hereditament must be treated as one hereditament.

Then this from the Local government finance act 1988 sec 64, ss4

(8)A hereditament is non-domestic if either—
(a)it consists entirely of property which is not domestic, or
(b)it is a composite hereditament.
(9)A hereditament is composite if part only of it consists of domestic property.

They do seem to keep those lists very quiet don't they, i've never heard them mentioned anywhere.

Could it be that they are making the presumption that all of our properties are non-domestic, compiling a list, putting a notice in the local newspapers, and we are not rebutting the presumption?

If that was the case, all we would need to do is contact the valuation officer, inform him that our property is wholly domestic, and request that we be removed from his local non-domestic list.

Or am i missing something here?

I'm still working my way through Halsbury's, lot of research still to do. Just wanted to put this out there to see what others think about it.

Thought's anyone.
Last edited by Rongo121 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Rongo121 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:01 pm

Further to the above, take a look at this:

Halsbury's Laws of England/RATING AND COUNCIL TAX (VOLUME 39(1B) (REISSUE))/2. NON-DOMESTIC RATING/(5) CHARGEABLE AMOUNT/(i) Local Non-domestic Rating Lists/A. OCCUPIED HEREDITAMENTS/60. Calculating the amount payable for occupied hereditaments in the local rating list.

(5) CHARGEABLE AMOUNT

(i) Local Non-domestic Rating Lists

A. OCCUPIED HEREDITAMENTS

60. Calculating the amount payable for occupied hereditaments in the local rating list.

The ratepayer is subject to the non-domestic rate in respect of a chargeable financial year if the following conditions are fulfilled in respect of any day in the year, namely if: (1) on that day he is in occupation of all or part of the hereditament; and (2) the hereditament is shown for that day in a local non-domestic rating list in force for the year.
The amount payable is calculated by: (a) finding the chargeable amount for each chargeable day; and (b) aggregating the amounts found under head (a) above. For most cases, the chargeable amount for a chargeable day is calculated by multiplying the rateable value by the non-domestic rating multiplier for the financial year, and using the number of days in the financial year to divide the product. However, where the relevant conditions are met, rate relief schemes may apply variations to this formula in cases where the hereditament relates to a small business, to a charity or registered club, to a qualifying general store, food store or post office on the rural settlement list or to certain former agricultural land or buildings.
The amount the ratepayer is liable to pay in any case must be paid to the billing authority in whose local non-domestic rating list the hereditament is shown.


Footnote 1
Ratepayer: Is a person who is subject to a non-domestic rate as regards a hereditament in a local rating list: see the Local Govern-ment Finance Act 1988 s 43(1). For the meaning of 'hereditament' see PARA 33 et seq ante. As to local non-domestic rating lists see PARA 121 et seq post.


This is very interesting stuff, it does seem that if you're not on the "local non-domestic rating list", then you cannot be a ratepayer.

Surely it could'nt be this obvious, could it?

Thoughts anyone.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Rongo121 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:30 pm

Howdy folks, finding more stuff all the time.

Apparently under the regulations below you can make a proposal for alteration to the lists.

The Non-Domestic Rating (Alteration of Lists and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2009

Circumstances in which proposals may be made
4.—(1) The grounds for making a proposal are—

(i)the list should show that some part of a hereditament which is shown in the list is domestic property or is exempt from non-domestic rating but does not do so;


There are lots of grounds for making an appeal, (a) to (o), i think the one above (i) is the most suitable. Surely if it's wholly used for domestic purposes then it should be exempt from non-domestic rating.

This has got to be worth a try.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Dreadlock » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:21 pm

A hereditament is non-domestic if either it consists en-tirely of property which is not domestic, or it is a composite hereditament. A hereditament is a relevant he-reditament if it consists of property of any of the following descriptions:
... (4) any right to use land for the purpose of exhibiting advertisements or for the purpose of op-erating meters which measure a supply of gas or electricity (or some other specified service) and which are not operated by consumers.


So by that definition most houses are non-domestic as they pretty much all have some kind of meter. As ALL new property comes with meters already attached (I'm pretty sure this is the case) the assumption is being made from the outset that they are non-domestic. Devious. Very devious.

Which raises the interesting question: Why should having a meter NOT OPERATED BY CONSUMERS indicate that the property is non-domestic?

Answer: Because a Domestic property peopled by natives does not need a meter. The resources they use are theirs and they do not need to pay for them, but they would be free to install a meter for their own purposes as consumers. However a property peopled by foreigners would require a meter monitored by a third party in order that they could be properly charged for the resources they use. Charged because they are using that which does not belong to them.

So, you would have to challenge the water, gas and electric companies and get them to remove their meters. Then you would have a valid case for having your property re-designated as domestic.

But then, why bother with all that shit when statute doesn't apply to you anyway? My definition of domestic property is the place where I have my home. End of story.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Rongo121 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:48 pm

Hi Dreadlock

Thanks for taking the time to respond, as usual you raise some great points.

I agree with you about statutes not being relevant to me, and i don't usually bother with them, but i'm in the process of taking on the council, so i want to be as well prepared as possible.

I double checked their definition of domestic, part of which is in the post above, and nowhere does it mention meters. However you could be right, after all they are devious as you say.

I think that when they talk about relevant hereditaments above, it's only relevant to non-domestic hereditaments, not domestic. So any of the 4 conditions would not apply, but i could be wrong.

I'm thinking of sending a notice to their valuation officer and asking for proof/evidence that my property is non-domestic. Then the burden of proof will be on them, and they will have to give their reasons or remove me from their list.

At least then we'll know for sure.

Best of luck mate.

John.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Dreadlock » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:10 pm

Hi Rongo,

It is definitely stating that a hereditament is non-domestic if ANY of the four conditions apply. However, a notice certainly can't do any harm, I'd be interested in their response.
Good luck with your Council. I'm in the early stages of taking mine on too. Would be interesting to compare notes at some point.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Dreadlock » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:13 am

Are our hereditaments occupied?

Occupancy. The taking possession of a res nullius or ownerless thing.
Occupant. See Tenant pur autre vie.
Occupation. The exercise of physical control or possession of land ; especially by the forces of the Crown in time of war, in enemy territory, or at home.

Tenant pur autre vie. A tenant for the life of another. If A granted land to B during the life of C and B died before C, then there was no one entitled to the land because A had parted with his right
during C's life. Anyone might enter and occupy during C's life, and was called a "general occupant." But B.'s heir might enter and occupy, and was called the "special occupant." By the Statute of
Frauds, s. 12, however, a tenant pur autre vie might dispose of his interest by will ; otherwise it formed part of his personal estate.

A hereditament is:

Hereditament. Real property which on an intestacy might have devolved on an heir. Corporeal hereditaments are visible and tangible objects such as lands and houses. Incorporeal hereditaments are
intangible objects such as tithes, easements, profits a prendre.

So what exactly is an OCCUPIED HEREDITAMENT?

My interpretation: An occupied hereditament is property properly belonging to an heir or estate, but which has been possessed by another, possibly by force, and who is a foreigner and has no right to the property in question.
This sounds very much like the definition of a SQUATTER:

An individual who settles on the land of another person without any legal authority to do so, or without acquiring a legal title.

So, in a nutshell we have yet more presumptions going on here. That being that the dwellers of the house are foreigners with no right to be there!

I knew all this already, but to have it confirmed by reading their statute is bloody priceless.

All definitions, except "squatter", taken from "A Concise Law Dictionary for Students and Practitioners 1927", Sweet and Maxwell.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Rongo121 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Agree with you entirely Dreadlock, great post mate.

When i wrote to the council i informed them that i was the peaceful inhabitant in peaceful possession of the property.

During the war the countries that were invaded were referred to as the occupied territories/countries. so there's another clue that being the occupier is in effect an act of war.

Definition of "Occupation" in Blacks 8th ed.

1) An activity or pursuit in which a person is engaged esp., a persons usual work or business.

2) The possession control or use of real property.

3) The seizure and control of a territory by military force; the condition of territory that has been placed under the authority of a hostile army.

4) The period during which territory seized by military force is held.

No doubt they would like us to believe they mean (2) above, but you can bet they mean (3) and (4). Gives them plausible deniability, crafty gits.

And the council never did write back to the peaceful inhabitant, wonder why. :puzz:

Nevermind i had a lovely game of letter tennis with them. :giggle:
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Rongo121 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:16 pm

Just found this, does seem to confirm that domestic property should not be on the local lists.

Take a look at (3) below.

Halsbury's Laws of England/RATING AND COUNCIL TAX (VOLUME 39(1B) (REISSUE))/2. NON-DOMESTIC RATING/(7) RATING LISTS/(ii) Local Non-domestic Rating Lists/123. Contents of local non-domestic rating lists.

123. Contents of local non-domestic rating lists.

A local non-domestic rating list must show, for each day in each chargeable financial year for which it is in force, each hereditament, on the day concerned, which:

(1) is situated in the billing authority's area;
(2) is a relevant non-domestic hereditament;
(3) is not (nor any part of it) either domestic property or exempt from local non-domestic rating; and
(4) is not a hereditament which must be shown for the day in a central non-domestic rating list.

For each day on which a hereditament is shown in the local list, it must also show whether it consists en-tirely of property which is not domestic, or is a composite hereditament, and whether any part of the he-reditament is exempt from local non-domestic rating. The list must show the rateable value of the heredita-ment. The list must also contain such information about hereditaments shown in it as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State (or the Welsh Ministers, as the case may be) by regulations; and this may include information about the total rateable values shown in the list. Accordingly, in respect of each hereditament shown in a list, the list must contain: (a) a description of the hereditament; (b) its address; and (c) any ref-erence number ascribed to it by the valuation officer. A list must also show on any day in which it is in force the total of rateable values shown in the list. In respect of any alteration directed to be made by a tribunal, the name of the tribunal must also be shown in the list.

Now that's interesting. :thinks:

Definitely time for a notice to find out for sure, how and why they class a property as non-domestic.

Looks like this next part is where they designate your person as being liable for whats in the local non-domestic list.

126. Power to prescribe the contents of central non-domestic rating lists.

With a view to securing the central rating en bloc of certain hereditaments, the Secretary of State (or the Welsh Ministers, as the case may be) may by regulations designate a person and prescribe in relation to him one or more descriptions of relevant non-domestic hereditament. Where the regulations so require, a central non-domestic rating list must show, for each day in each chargeable financial year for which it is in force, the name of the designated person and, against it, each hereditament (wherever situated) which on the day concerned is occupied or (if unoccupied) owned by him, and falls within any description prescribed in relation to him. For each such day, the list must also show against the name of the designated person the rateable value (as a whole) of the hereditaments so shown. Where regulations are for the time being in force so prescribing a description of non-domestic hereditament in relation to the previously designated person, amending regulations altering the designated person in relation to whom that description of hereditament is prescribed may have effect from a date earlier than that on which the amending regulations are made. A central non-domestic rating list must also contain such information about hereditaments shown in it as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State (or the Welsh Ministers, as the case may be) by regulations.

127. Contents of central non-domestic rating lists.

With a view to securing the central rating en bloc of certain hereditaments, various corporate bodies have been designated, and in relation to them a group of relevant non-domestic hereditaments prescribed, by regulations. The hereditaments so prescribed are:

(1) railway hereditaments (including, in relation to England only, light railway heredita-ments);
(2) communication hereditaments;
(3) national, regional and local gas transportation hereditaments;
(4) gas meter hereditaments;
(5) electricity transmission and distribution hereditaments10;
(6) electricity meter hereditaments;
(7) water supply hereditaments;
(8) canal hereditaments; and
(9) long-distance pipeline hereditaments.

The regulations also designate a person in relation to each relevant hereditament.
The central non-domestic rating list must show, for each day in each year for which it is in force, the name of each designated person and, against each name, each hereditament situated in England or Wales (as the case may be) which on the day concerned is occupied (or, if unoccupied, owned) by that person, and which falls within the description prescribed in relation to that person. The list must also show, against the name of each designated person, that person's business details, the rateable value (as a whole) of the he-reditaments so shown and, if after 1 April 2005, the first day for which the rateable value shown in the list against the name of the designated person has effect. Where the list has been altered in pursuance of a direction by a tribunal, the name of the tribunal must also been shown in the list.
A hereditament is to be treated as shown in a central non-domestic rating list for a day if on the day it falls within a class of hereditament shown for the day in the list; and for this purpose a hereditament falls within a class on a particular day if (and only if) it falls within the class immediately before the day ends.

I recommend taking a look at these regulations too. Looks like Dreadlock may have been right about the meters.

The Central Rating List (England) Regulations 2005.

Sorry about the length of these posts, they sure do love their gobbledygook.
And i'm sure glad non of this crap applies to a man/woman, only to fictions. But i do think it's good to look at these things, if only to expose their deviousness.
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Re: Council tax rating lists

Postby Dreadlock » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:37 pm

Neither 126 nor 127 are defining who is liable.

126 merely defines what the contents of the central non-domestic ratings list will be. E.g. The person's name, the property they own and the value of the property etc.

127 simply defines hereditaments as non-domestic by determining their relationship with various corporations, such as electricity and gas suppliers, and associates each hereditament with an appropriate person. Presumably by cross-reference with the Land Registry and other databases.

What is very interesting is this,
The list must also show, against the name of each designated person, that person's business [emphasis mine] details


As these hereditaments are defined as NON DOMESTIC, they must therefore be business premises. Wouldn't it be interesting to know what "business" a family home is defined as running?
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