Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby joe » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:54 pm

An interesting afternoon.....there must have been around 50 people who had been "summoned" by either Bournemouth or Christchurch Councils. By the time they had all been interviewed in the corridor and agreed to make payments there were three of us left to go into Court. It was interesting listening to the council officials speaking with the others - the first thing they said, more of less was, "so do you want to make a payment arrangement today, and then we don't need to take this into court".

I was second in and have to say I was hugely disappointed to find that it was only the council and a legal advisor present - where were the magistrates? The legal advisor began by stating that she understood that I accepted that there was an outstanding debt to be paid to the council.... Hang on a second - my turn....!

"I would like to say that I understand a summons is an invitation to attend court, and one that I will accept, but with conditions...." (Legal represenatative sits up and looks at me strangely).

1. that the court acknowledges that I am a living, breathing human being and treat me as that;
2. that we speak English with one another that we both comprehend and not legal talk that I might not understand; and
3. that the court can show me that they have issued the summons as I only have a poorly photocopied piece of paper that isn't even on letterhead."

The legal advisor told me that I would not be able to see it and that if I did, she would have to adjourn the hearing.. (Why?)

I then wanted to confirm who I was, as up until this stage, I hadn't been asked!!!! So I initiated the fact that I was J****-L****, born of the family P*****, and married to the family C******. She looked at me like I was mad!

The legal advisor then asked me if I was telling her that I wasn't Mrs J*** C****. I told her that I wasn't Mrs J***** C'*** and that I was J*****-L***** etc. She then told me that if I wasn't JC that I didn't need to be there and that I was free to go. (Great) HOWEVER, the case would continue on the basis that Mrs JC hadn't turned up and that a liability order would be issued with costs. So if I was sure I wasn't JC that I could go.

I went the courtroom .

Is this a success? I was so looking forward to questioning them about the contract that I was supposed to have, but it didn't get that far.

What can I expect now from a Liability Order, and what can I do to get rid of that?

Also, how fairly was I treated if they weren't prepared to show me the original summons (which surely should have been on letterhead) and wanted to adjourn the hearing on this basis. Very strange.

Any thoughts most welcome, particularly on the Liability Issue.

I have subsequently had a suggestion tht I now ring the council to offer some from of payment - wouldn't that make my efforts in vain if they accept - and won't that mean I am accepting that I am Mrs JC?

Any advice welcome - feeling a bit wobbly now....

Thankyou.
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby kevin » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:15 pm

perhaps a bit late but are you sure it was a real summons? some of the councils have been writing there own, the fact that there were no magistrates makes me think this was the case here. they just hire the court room and blag it expecting everyone to make a deal outside
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby joe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:15 am

I asked for sight of the summons and was denied this - the legal advisor told me that the case would need to be adjourned if I wanted to see this - I pointed out that I had a scruffy photocopied piece of paper, not even on letterhead.

If I went this route, I would have had to accept that I was Mrs JC - so felt between a rock and a hard place.

Now waiting for liability order.

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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby MikeThomas » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:27 am

This 'Business Rates' is a load of bollox! The business's get absolutely nothing for their money other than the right to trade in the area. Imagine setting up a small business in a small 'unit'. They do it in Wales. No bigger than a large lounge, you have to pay in excess of £5,000 in rates! And, for that, they don't even empty the bins! You have to pay that separately!

As far as I'm concerned, small business's are the backbone of every local community and rates cost the consumer even more for something that the householder has already paid.

Sorry to go off-thread but I've seen too many hard working people struggle to make a living because the council want their 'pound of flesh'!
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby idmolcom » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:46 am

joe wrote:An interesting afternoon.....there must have been around 50 people who had been "summoned" by either Bournemouth or Christchurch Councils. By the time they had all been interviewed in the corridor and agreed to make payments there were three of us left to go into Court. It was interesting listening to the council officials speaking with the others - the first thing they said, more of less was, "so do you want to make a payment arrangement today, and then we don't need to take this into court".

I was second in and have to say I was hugely disappointed to find that it was only the council and a legal advisor present - where were the magistrates? The legal advisor began by stating that she understood that I accepted that there was an outstanding debt to be paid to the council.... Hang on a second - my turn....!

"I would like to say that I understand a summons is an invitation to attend court, and one that I will accept, but with conditions...." (Legal represenatative sits up and looks at me strangely).

1. that the court acknowledges that I am a living, breathing human being and treat me as that;
2. that we speak English with one another that we both comprehend and not legal talk that I might not understand; and
3. that the court can show me that they have issued the summons as I only have a poorly photocopied piece of paper that isn't even on letterhead."

The legal advisor told me that I would not be able to see it and that if I did, she would have to adjourn the hearing.. (Why?)

I then wanted to confirm who I was, as up until this stage, I hadn't been asked!!!! So I initiated the fact that I was J****-L****, born of the family P*****, and married to the family C******. She looked at me like I was mad!

The legal advisor then asked me if I was telling her that I wasn't Mrs J*** C****. I told her that I wasn't Mrs J***** C'*** and that I was J*****-L***** etc. She then told me that if I wasn't JC that I didn't need to be there and that I was free to go. (Great) HOWEVER, the case would continue on the basis that Mrs JC hadn't turned up and that a liability order would be issued with costs. So if I was sure I wasn't JC that I could go.

I went the courtroom .

Is this a success? I was so looking forward to questioning them about the contract that I was supposed to have, but it didn't get that far.

What can I expect now from a Liability Order, and what can I do to get rid of that?

Also, how fairly was I treated if they weren't prepared to show me the original summons (which surely should have been on letterhead) and wanted to adjourn the hearing on this basis. Very strange.

Any thoughts most welcome, particularly on the Liability Issue.

I have subsequently had a suggestion tht I now ring the council to offer some from of payment - wouldn't that make my efforts in vain if they accept - and won't that mean I am accepting that I am Mrs JC?

Any advice welcome - feeling a bit wobbly now....

Thankyou.




Hi Joe,

Let me ask you a few questions so I get it straight from
you rather than think what you are thinking.

1) What type of business do you run? ie ; Sole Trader,
Partnership, Limited Company?

2) In other words what is your business's legal status?

2) Who and what is Mrs. J C got to do with this case?

3) Has the liability order been issued?

All of those above reflect on how you can proceed.

I look forward to hearing from you .

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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby no_ta » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:04 am

Idmolcom
The main problem we all have is is this form of collection legal/lawful, presumably in the beginning you were issued with a notice saying how much business rates you will have to pay, unfortunately this is the beginning of this contract thing.
What I am concerned with is the 'Kangaroo' court situation, they must have done a deal with magistrates on the basis that if they get the relevant docs served etc and agreed by the 'defaulter' they will rubber stamp any order accordingl purely on the say so of the council.
This smells badly of cover up and deceit, someone somewhere must know the law and what is going on is wrong, there needs to be a judicial review regarding the self issuing of summonses on the basis that it has come from a magistrates court.
Whilst we are at that point, if a magistrates court does not issue a proper summons, does that mean that there is some sort of legal black hole which they cannot close, what the hell is it, someone reading this must know?
Are magistrates accountable when it concerns cover up and deceit? If so there will be some heads rolling, hopefully
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby huntingross » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:06 pm

Good idea no_ta....why don't a few enterprising members step up and put a case together....there appears to be plenty of evidence to support the claim
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby no_ta » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:30 pm

I asked about a Judicial Review, sometime ago, I was warned that the cost would be GBP5000.00 +, it's a lot to pay to establish the truth. That is why we need someone who knows to confirm what we suspect. If we could get just a little info we could rip them to shreds.

We are in business and have ongoing issues with local authorities, at the moment I am eroding their ability to operate, it's quite funny really how these muppets have authority but no qualifications in the fields they apply themselves.

I wonder if a FOI request would uncover something? We have a separate ltd company which we use as a pre-litigation enquirer, it keeps them guessing and distances us.

As I understand it, business rates go to Central Government, LA's just collect the money, therefore we need to establish who should be making the claim, CG or LA.

As most of the discussion here are related to civil matters, perhaps we need to establish some sections for the small business people, those who earn a living off their own efforts without buddies in the police or councils, you know the ones, the freemasons, the local networks who can and do interfere with legitimate people's lives. I have lifted the lid on one big pot and I can tell you it is not nice, but nevertheless, I am pleased that I haven't died and not found the truth.
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby huntingross » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:33 pm

My class action against Carlisle Council in respect of parking tickets has cost me £120 to lodge at the court....I don't know how that cost could escalate....
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby pedawson » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:50 pm

Isn't the point while in court to accept the legal fiction and to state that we are acting as lay representative for the legal fiction?

In your case I would have stated that I am acting as the appointed representative in this case. Going down the 'power of attorney' route.

The other side to this, is that in order for there to be charges an agreement has to be evident, and as you have not been in negotiation with the council there is no contract. Have you signed a contract that states you are liable for rates?
Ask for the agreement and for the signatures.

Any finance that is gained from business is little more than a promise to pay, SO, in reality you do not have any finances to declare.
The promises to pay can be utilised but are in fact not what the council call money, I would ask them to define 'MONEY' and if there are any charges will payment be acceptable as per the bill of exchange act 1882?

They CANNOT refuse, SO, you write out a promissory note as per the act and give it to them.

Problem solved? Or am I naive :giggle:
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